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tehace

thcdm7 - waterception

20 posts in this topic

I like the way you combine the main texture colour with the effects (here water; in the red one lava)... also use water as a window in my map.

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Really nice looking layout.  You're mapping skills have improved dramatically in less than a month. You've really got a good grasp on what it takes to make solid maps.  Find myself staring at your screenshots mesmerized.  It's so pretty and clean.  Can't wait to see what you can do when we get better tools.  You're doing really good work tehace.  Keep it up.

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thanks guys I never really made any maps before so its all new but I really do enjoy making them. For now all my maps are using only simple geometry but I would like to have some solid gameplay going on on them before I get into proper texturing with some different styles (whenever available). Really looking forward for more tools/assets.

 

As for the water widows I've noticed that objects sometimes disappear when looked at through water, have a look at this

http://thc333.com/reflex/water.jpg

the teleporter is just gone for some reason but only on some angles, its there again when looked from slightly different angle http://thc333.com/reflex/water2.jpg

 

I initially wanted to put MH/RA in full water (so you cant just grab them and run away) but I couldnt almost ever see them.

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Strange, in AEdm7r I have 2x25H (health) in deep water pool, and those show up from any perspective. My upper water edge is 8u below where the normal floor is, so the upper water face is *not* flush with the floor like in your case.

 

I also have a water window that lets me look at the stake gun, that also works fine. Don't have a TP anywhere nearby though. I would guess the TP shader used is critical in some way. Placing an MH or RA in or behind water should not be a problem.

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Hmm... very strange. Might hint that the MH does something differently than the 25H. Do you have the same problem if you use 25H instead?

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Hmm... very strange. Might hint that the MH does something differently than the 25H. Do you have the same problem if you use 25H instead?

 

just tried, dont see antyhning doesnt matter what that is different health, armour, weapon...

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Your water texture must then be evil, I tell you... kidding :)

 

I suppose the waterception name is even more fitting now ;p

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So finally ran about in your map, used the version downloaded from your site:

  • Depending how agressively you clip off the ceilings of the arenas, a lot of the brush faces up there can be darkcaulked.
  • There are two brushes up there that seem to need deleting.
  • The JP in the blue gun arena, at the central shaft, pushes you forward into the water window. Should the JP not push you backwards up on the upper floor ledge? If so I would angle the JP floor brush, to hint at the direction of the push back.
  • You can actually double-jump through water windows, I clipped off mine in my map, but in several cases I did want to jump through your water windows. Something to maybe think about.
  • In the 3-part water window arena, I would remove the middle column, to not obstruct the view, it seems in the way IMO.
  • Right behind the 3-part water window, I noted and interesting 3-angled stairs with yellow gun. The central step brushes need some more vertex editing love, they actually intersect the other brushes. Strange that you are not seeing any texture-related z-fighting here.
  • Your extremely flat JP brushes, 1u high, may be a tad too flat IMO, I'd go for 4u height, so that they are easier to be noted.
  • The issues with your water windows, and the disappearing TP and in one case red weapon (the RL I think), I can confirm. I thought I had solved the issue by avoiding that the clip touches the water brush in any way. Removing the clip for the gun helped, but for the water window and the TP it did not help. I would still avoid having your clip touch any brush, be it geometry or the water.
  • No idea how to get to your MH... rocket jump?
  • In general I would avoid using so many TPs... 4 if I counted correctly. To me using TPs is always a sign of pathing gone wrong, using TPs to quickfix the situation. Having to go somewhere and actually get there IMO is an important gameplay element and more "consistent" and less arbitrary. To me TPs are confusing, and in such a small map I would expect to see 2 TPs at the most. To use a TP to get up a floor several times... hmmm... maybe I am too old-school, but you might like to look into it. Maybe work with JPs more instead.

Hope that helps.

tehace likes this

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I've noticed this happening sometimes on Deflex.  Because I'm using water as a temporary glass replacement it happens to me too.  Here's a screenshot where the teleporter on the right is missing.  It's not a visual plane issue.  I'm well within the visual plane.

 

2014-12-04_00002_zps8427d770.jpg

 

As you can see I have 6 teleporters but only 5 are visible.  So it's not a constant issue of all teleporters not showing up through water, it only happens sometimes.  I couldn't figure out why it was happening.  Now that you've pinpointed it to water it makes sooo much sense now.  Something about the water and teleporter effect that seem to have random visibility issues with each other. Definitely something going on there for developers to look into.  I think you've found a bug.  I didn't report it because I thought it was just an odd anomaly.  Now that you've had it too we can confirm it's some kind of bug.  Can't imagine this one is going to be easy for the devs to track down since it seems to happen randomly.  At least in my experience it mattered which direction you were looking in order for it to happen and it only happens while looking at a specific angle.  Again, this is definitely not a visual plane issue. When you do see it happen though you can repeat it reliably at that time.  If you can repeat it reliably on your map I recommend making a bug report and linking it to this topic so they can download your map and reproduce the result.

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So I've spend the weekend learning the basics of AE and here is what I came up with, enjoy! ;)

 

 

just make sure to watch it in 1080p60 as the video is in 60fps I've noticed some syncing issues when playing at 30fps...

MnstH likes this

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So finally ran about in your map, used the version downloaded from your site:

  1. Depending how agressively you clip off the ceilings of the arenas, a lot of the brush faces up there can be darkcaulked.
  2. There are two brushes up there that seem to need deleting.
  3. The JP in the blue gun arena, at the central shaft, pushes you forward into the water window. Should the JP not push you backwards up on the upper floor ledge? If so I would angle the JP floor brush, to hint at the direction of the push back.
  4. You can actually double-jump through water windows, I clipped off mine in my map, but in several cases I did want to jump through your water windows. Something to maybe think about.
  5. In the 3-part water window arena, I would remove the middle column, to not obstruct the view, it seems in the way IMO.
  6. Right behind the 3-part water window, I noted and interesting 3-angled stairs with yellow gun. The central step brushes need some more vertex editing love, they actually intersect the other brushes. Strange that you are not seeing any texture-related z-fighting here.
  7. Your extremely flat JP brushes, 1u high, may be a tad too flat IMO, I'd go for 4u height, so that they are easier to be noted.
  8. The issues with your water windows, and the disappearing TP and in one case red weapon (the RL I think), I can confirm. I thought I had solved the issue by avoiding that the clip touches the water brush in any way. Removing the clip for the gun helped, but for the water window and the TP it did not help. I would still avoid having your clip touch any brush, be it geometry or the water.
  9. No idea how to get to your MH... rocket jump?
  10. In general I would avoid using so many TPs... 4 if I counted correctly. To me using TPs is always a sign of pathing gone wrong, using TPs to quickfix the situation. Having to go somewhere and actually get there IMO is an important gameplay element and more "consistent" and less arbitrary. To me TPs are confusing, and in such a small map I would expect to see 2 TPs at the most. To use a TP to get up a floor several times... hmmm... maybe I am too old-school, but you might like to look into it. Maybe work with JPs more instead.

Hope that helps.

  1. Yep I rushed it a bit ;0 will rework that with the next set of amendments.
  2. see 1
  3. I'll see about that, on the side note does the target direction influence the direction in any way?
  4. I suppose I'll keep them the way they are atm.
  5. I'll try that and see how it plays out.
  6. From what I've seen if they're all using the same texture they can overlap how much they want ;0 I added those last would have to revisit them.
  7. I noticed that I can just jump over the trim and did not use the jp, definitely needs fixing.
  8. noted
  9. Actually, stairs jump is pretty easy (about 50units less than cpm stair jump from lg -> mh), both teleport exits provide a direct jump to the teleporter if you make them right and if all fails you can just strafe jump from the highest level without much of a problem (you can check the video I posted above there is one teleport jump there). 
  10. Yes I have 4 and I did added the one at the bottom level next to the bolt as last second addition since I ended up with kind of 3 levels in that room. In my defence I can say that they're all one way portals and they primarily serves the purpose of changing the level, what other alternatives do we have such a high stairs doesnt sounds like a good idea.

Thanks for the comments.

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-> 3. The target direction does not have an influence when used for JPs, but it does for the TP, AFAICT.

 

-> 9. Seem to be a lot more movement challenged than I thought, sigh.

 

-> 10. Jumppads would be a way... I like maps with bounce, they let you rail players :ph34r:

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hey tehace,

 

map looks nice and clean. i like that :)

 

if u still got the problems with your water not able to look through, you could replace the water texture with the regen_powerup texture like i did in DP2 (RA-Room)

 

looks stylish too, or just use the wire frame texture

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hey tehace,

 

map looks nice and clean. i like that :)

 

if u still got the problems with your water not able to look through, you could replace the water texture with the regen_powerup texture like i did in DP2 (RA-Room)

 

looks stylish too, or just use the wire frame texture

 

I had 'problems' with powerups textures on thcdm5 where they were displaying in colours (quad/regen/RA/etc) but only on certain heights like if i moved the textured object up it looses the colour of a specific item. The water windows are not that much of an issue since I didnt put any items directly into water, rocket trails are lost while shooting through but thats neglectable. I suppose im going to wait for proper textures before I try to give maps any kind of 'flavour'.

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  • fixed the 'broken' jumppad near MH that was to thin to trigger jumping
  • removed part of the central pillar
  • slightly item rebalancing YA on the ground floor / one RL on the middle floor.

link stays the same.

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