63 posts in this topic

41 minutes ago, Pill_ said:

...why do you know that?

'(atleast not at this moment that i'm aware of)'

Can't know for sure, but it's just blatantly obvious when someone is using wallhack/aimbot, especially for seasoned players. Notorious wallhacker in CPM for example was zubich, aka zoid aka 34. Hopefully we won't have to go through that shit again in Reflex lol.

Edit: I didn't know this thread was going to be turned into some cheats/hacks thread though, it's just a pack that makes some sparks etc. invisible, not a big deal, take it as it is. Apparantly it was even already posted on Discord as BanReflex pointed out just now, i didn't know that.

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you cant stop people from using timers aside from playing on lan because you can literally set up an ahk script to time for you in like 5 minutes

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2 hours ago, Padawan said:

No, there is simply no wallhack or aimbot possible/available in Reflex (atleast not at this moment that i'm aware of), so that point is invalid. This tweak was possible, it was bound to be discovered sooner or later anyway (which it did, for example DEZ, Ivan and 'BanReflex' actually had it before i made it) and so the fair thing to do then is to make it public, so there's no advantage for a few players.

Yes, i tried this like 2 weeks ago and can confirm it is indeed exploitable (i told a few other players about this but i haven't contacted Shooter yet). I guess it would have been better to inform the devs for a hotfix first rather than post it here but alas (so much for upcoming tourneys :p). And the even bigger issue atm is that LUA widgets are still scriptable to function as armor timers, just read Kered's comment above. Short story: Reflex is cheatable in many ways. Solution: force audio files to max 5 seconds, ban custom lua scripts entirely, and even force server sv_pure 1 as someone mentioned above.

Aimbots/wallhacks ARE possible in Reflex (and a wallhack had already been made). Not sure why you think it isn't possible.

The same argument extends to pretty much any game though, just because something is available to everyone, doesn't mean it's not a cheat.

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and so the fair thing to do then is to make it public, so there's no advantage for a few players.

Yep, this is why I intend to release my pickup timers widget once it's done. Actually I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already made one (public or otherwise). It's also why I released my charge turning script in TF2 (though to be fair that was fun and not even imbalanced).

Yes, i tried this like 2 weeks ago and can confirm it is indeed exploitable (i told a few other players about this but i haven't contacted Shooter yet). I guess it would have been better to inform the devs for a hotfix first rather than post it here but alas (so much for upcoming tourneys :p). And the even bigger issue atm is that LUA widgets are still scriptable to function as armor timers, just read Kered's comment above. Short story: Reflex is cheatable in many ways. Solution: force audio files to max 5 seconds, ban custom lua scripts entirely, and even force server sv_pure 1 as someone mentioned above.

For audio: There should be limits on the length of audio files, and they should not be played at all for pickups that are too far away (it might already do this, I'm not sure) to prevent using loud pickup sounds that can be heard from anywhere.

For scripting, I'm not sure. I don't want to see scripting removed entirely, because you can do some really cool and good stuff with it. You just have to read this forum for examples. Some stuff can be prevented by very carefully selecting what information is visible to Lua, but for some things I think you just have to accept that it's going to be possible. Take self-pickup timers for example. Armor and health values need to be visible to allow armor and health bars in HUDs, the timer needs to be visible to allow for the game timer, and you can't prevent Lua scripts from saving internal state. These are the only three requirements for making a self-timer script. Unless you come up with some complicated mechanism for preventing widgets from accessing both health/armor and the timer at the same time, there's no way to prevent it. And even that might now work, because widgets can talk to each other (each widget is an object with global scope), so you could have a timer widget and a health/armor widget feed information into a self-pickup timer widget.

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If this was COD4 I'd agree that removing visuals is cheating but arena shooters aren't about finding your enemy crawling in thick grass with a ghillie suit. Removing sparks/blood is really benign too (it's really just a preference) and you can do way worse shit with LUA anyways. These things should imo just be cvar'd.

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Awesome, finally game visibility is on acceptable levels, also rockets feels way more responsive with removed smoke trails and all that useless effects shit,they should be option to disable them in game menu, idk , maybe it's too much work to implement? 

Padawan and AliceMadness like this

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14 hours ago, Terifire said:

Aimbots/wallhacks ARE possible in Reflex (and a wallhack had already been made). Not sure why you think it isn't possible.

The same argument extends to pretty much any game though, just because something is available to everyone, doesn't mean it's not a cheat.

Damn, that is FUBAR. Even during early access, wallhacks are already being made, what a shame... still it stands in major contrast with some minor tweaks like this though. Maybe make it a special ability like Visor in Quake Champions? :P

4 hours ago, NicholasWalters said:

Awesome, finally game visibility is on acceptable levels, also rockets feels way more responsive with removed smoke trails and all that useless effects shit,they should be option to disable them in game menu, idk , maybe it's too much work to implement? 

Hey man glad you like it. I think the devs can implement this in 10 min tbh, a button on the UI is basically a link to a cvar, which (hypothetically) could be called 'cl_disableSparks 1', which then enables the transparant file in the weapons folder. Shouldn't be too hard anyways and hopefully they'll add it for the sake of it. Until then use this as a workaround :P

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2 minutes ago, Padawan said:

Damn, that is FUBAR. Even during early access, wallhacks are already being made, what a shame... still it stands in major contrast with some minor tweaks like this though. Maybe make it a special ability like Visor in Quake Champions? :P

Hey man glad you like it. I think the devs can implement this in 10 min tbh, a button on the UI is basically a link to a cvar, which (hypothetically) could be called 'cl_disableSparks 1', which then enables the transparant file in the weapons folder. Shouldn't be too hard anyways and hopefully they'll add it for the sake of it. Until then use this as a workaround :P

The reason for not implementing it is not time, it's to prevent having 'pro configs' that give an advantage and to give the game a somewhat uniform look for every player.

The latter is quite important to not confuse people whom are unfamiliar with the game and watching a stream.

banReflex, promEUs and Padawan like this

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On 7/15/2016 at 5:46 PM, Terifire said:

In my opinion removing visuals like the enemy's IC beam and sparks and blood is kind of cheating.

What's about: Rails to death and grenade timer? ;)

Also some of Padawan's custom sounds have better audibility than default ones.

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5 minutes ago, DEZ said:

What's about: Rails to death and grenade timer? ;)

There's a massive difference between what the game inherently allows the player to modify and going out of your way to modify gamefiles outside of the "intended" use.
What widgets should/should not be able to do is another discussion entirely

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12 minutes ago, DEZ said:

What's about: Rails to death and grenade timer? ;)

Also some of yours custom sounds have better audibility than default ones.

Thanks, i added alot more volume to the pickup sounds using Audacity. And i turned the mono sounds into stereo.

Regarding terifire's widgets, i guess it's ok. But according to his own logic, his custom quake 3 executable would be cheating too: http://www.esreality.com/post/2683232/modified-q3e-with-unlocked-fps-src/

8 minutes ago, promEUs said:

There's a massive difference between what the game inherently allows the player to modify and going out of your way to modify gamefiles outside of the "intended" use.
What widgets should/should not be able to do is another discussion entirely

But... the devs knew about this since day 1. People have been replacing sounds since first release because they weren't satisfied with them. If they saw this as an issue and had it high on their priority list to stop it they would have done it a long time ago. So i would argue it's within the boundaries of what's allowed.

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1 hour ago, Terifire said:

The reason for not implementing it is not time, it's to prevent having 'pro configs' that give an advantage and to give the game a somewhat uniform look for every player.

The latter is quite important to not confuse people whom are unfamiliar with the game and watching a stream.

I like that idea and don't think most of the effects are any problem at all, I've never been bothered by explosion particles, smoke or whatever and I actually think rocket trail is useful, not distracting. The only effect I have a problem with are the sparks and hope the devs reconsider it based on feedback.

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3 minutes ago, Padawan said:

Thanks, i added alot more volume to the pickup sounds using Audacity. And i turned the mono sounds into stereo.

Oh, I meant your sounds not Terri's, excuse my crooked fingers))

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1 hour ago, DEZ said:

What's about: Rails to death and grenade timer? ;)

Also some of Padawan's custom sounds have better audibility than default ones.

Neither of those widgets alter game files.

And yeah I don't have anything against custom sounds, except for the example Pill gave for timing items.

1 hour ago, Padawan said:

Thanks, i added alot more volume to the pickup sounds using Audacity. And i turned the mono sounds into stereo.

Regarding terifire's widgets, i guess it's ok. But according to his own logic, his custom quake 3 executable would be cheating too: http://www.esreality.com/post/2683232/modified-q3e-with-unlocked-fps-src/

But... the devs knew about this since day 1. People have been replacing sounds since first release because they weren't satisfied with them. If they saw this as an issue and had it high on their priority list to stop it they would have done it a long time ago. So i would argue it's within the boundaries of what's allowed.

Yeah many people did consider my executable a cheat, including arQon. But trust me, if you consider that a cheat you should re-evaluate all the results from all major quake 3 tournaments since 2008 ;) I guess the community decided it's allowed though.

The problem is not with the sounds, but with removing visual effects.

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On 15.07.2016 at 5:45 PM, Terifire said:

Altering gamefiles to change the visuals to get an advantage is taking it a step too far

Technically you're not 'altering' any gamefiles. You're creating a new file or entire folder tree that's being used instead of original one which .pak files contain. Did you ever wonder why such functionality is even in place?

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12 minutes ago, CrematoR said:

Technically you're not 'altering' any gamefiles. You're creating a new file or entire folder tree that's being used instead of original one which .pak files contain. Did you ever wonder why such functionality is even in place?

Semantics. You're replacing a visual effect with another one, regardless of how that is achieved.

Such functionality is in place because it's an absolute necesity, what are you trying to get at here?

Why do you think such functionality is in place? Because I highly doubt it's for players to remove visual effects.

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17 minutes ago, CrematoR said:

Technically you're not 'altering' any gamefiles. You're creating a new file or entire folder tree that's being used instead of original one which .pak files contain. Did you ever wonder why such functionality is even in place?

To be fair, this kind of stuff is probably there because alpha (tm) rather than because of conscious design choices.

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13 minutes ago, Terifire said:

Such functionality is in place because it's an absolute necesity, what are you trying to get at here?

What's the point in being able to use external files which are being used instead of internal ones if going by your logic they are supposed to be exactly the same?

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3 minutes ago, CrematoR said:

What's the point in being able to use external files which are being used instead of internal ones if going by your logic they are supposed to be exactly the same?

It's alpha, lots of the files probably aren't final and there's little point in coming up with a system that enforces file validation atm.

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i like how people get mad about players replacing files instead of being like "yeah actually the sparks and shit are excessive i think they should be changed for the sake of visibility and because the game can still look good without a bunch of particles going everywhere constantly"

also, "pro configs" being a factor in deathmatch games' lack of success is one of the stupidest reasons i've seen given for why these games don't succeed. "casual" players (that is, players who do not aspire to win a ferrari or play in tournaments, but just want to have fun blasting shit online) want things like easy-to-use matchmaking and team modes.

furthermore, locking down graphics settings doesn't inherently create an even playing field OR good visibility. take csgo for instance, where absolutely every graphics option is locked down so that visibility cannot be increased with in-game commands, meanwhile any player who is decent at the game is playing with a stretched 4:3 resolution to make targets bigger and has their gpu/monitor's saturation set to 200% because the game's art style is a washed out mess

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On 7/15/2016 at 3:46 PM, Terifire said:

In my opinion removing visuals like the enemy's IC beam and sparks and blood is kind of cheating.

I find this a bit hypocritical thing to say by you, since you are using a script to disable ion damage numbers. Yeah, you don't have to alter game's files to achieve this, but the end result is the same: disabling visual effects to improve visibility.

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1 hour ago, CrematoR said:

What's the point in being able to use external files which are being used instead of internal ones if going by your logic they are supposed to be exactly the same?

It's faster for development of the game, no need to constantly add it to the .pak file.

That, and the fact that a year ago Reflex didn't have .pak files so it's probably just legacy code, is the reason I think it's still in.

50 minutes ago, ketku said:

I find this a bit hypocritical thing to say by you, since you are using a script to disable ion damage numbers. Yeah, you don't have to alter game's files to achieve this, but the end result is the same: disabling visual effects to improve visibility.

But that's exactly the point... disabling the numbers is a matter of setting cl_text_time to 0, without altering any game files. It's removing visual effects without altering (or replacing) gamefiles.

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1 hour ago, CrematoR said:

What's the point in being able to use external files which are being used instead of internal ones if going by your logic they are supposed to be exactly the same?

It's faster for development of the game, no need to constantly add it to the .pak file.

That, and the fact that a year ago Reflex didn't have .pak files so it's probably just legacy code, is the reason I think it's still in.

50 minutes ago, ketku said:

I find this a bit hypocritical thing to say by you, since you are using a script to disable ion damage numbers. Yeah, you don't have to alter game's files to achieve this, but the end result is the same: disabling visual effects to improve visibility.

But that's exactly the point... disabling the numbers is a matter of setting cl_text_time to 0, without altering any game files. It's removing visual effects without altering (or replacing) gamefiles.

1 hour ago, hArD_a$$_nIqQa said:

i like how people get mad about players replacing files instead of being like "yeah actually the sparks and shit are excessive i think they should be changed for the sake of visibility and because the game can still look good without a bunch of particles going everywhere constantly"

Because not everyone agrees with this.

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