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thelawenforcer

End of game movement stats!

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Somewhat related: I've always thought it'd be nice to see the 'least # of jumps' and top speed anyone's gotten during a game of race. When you see someone breaking the run record, these are good indicators for showing "what it takes". Fewer jumps often show that there's a shortcut that you don't know about and faster speed shows that the record was achieved with technique.

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59 minutes ago, Smilecythe said:

Somewhat related: I've always thought it'd be nice to see the 'least # of jumps' and top speed anyone's gotten during a game of race. When you see someone breaking the run record, these are good indicators for showing "what it takes". Fewer jumps often show that there's a shortcut that you don't know about and faster speed shows that the record was achieved with technique.

Race already includes top speed, avg speed, and distance of each player. Number of jumps probably near perfectly correlated to top/avg speed and distance (essentially, your route) so that seems redundant to include jumps for that purpose ("what it takes").

@thelawenforcer, isn't distance traveled already included in stats board for all modes (not just race)? I agree the other details would be great to have. Maybe also a heat map of each player separately and combined would be both great for mappers and players.

Also, I wonder if maybe median speed would be better than average. 

Lastly, would be nice to have leaderboards of race. Like best time, shortest distance, top speed, etc., for every map in the workshop.

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1 hour ago, lolograde said:

Race already includes top speed, avg speed, and distance of each player. Number of jumps probably near perfectly correlated to top/avg speed and distance (essentially, your route) so that seems redundant to include jumps for that purpose ("what it takes").

What I meant basically was not individual stats but top stats from completed runs in each category and general map specific statistics. It could be all-time stats or current game stats. Basically what was the least amount of jumps somebody completed the race with, what was the max speed anyone's ever gone at in that map (whether or not they completed the race) and stuff like that. Jumping and distance are different because distance doesn't portray vertical movement or in general air time. If distance does however portray vertical movement as well then I would assume it shows even less coherent readings because every jump you do adds a little bit of traveled vertical distance.

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2 hours ago, Smilecythe said:

What I meant basically was not individual stats but top stats from completed runs in each category and general map specific statistics. It could be all-time stats or current game stats. Basically what was the least amount of jumps somebody completed the race with, what was the max speed anyone's ever gone at in that map (whether or not they completed the race) and stuff like that. Jumping and distance are different because distance doesn't portray vertical movement or in general air time. If distance does however portray vertical movement as well then I would assume it shows even less coherent readings because every jump you do adds a little bit of traveled vertical distance.

You're envisioning that as a "fun" statistic? It'd be useful to see distance and top/avg speed for the fastest runs but a player can take some inefficient route to achieve the shortest distance or fastest top/avg speed without actually achieving the fastest time on a map. For example, someone could walk (slowly) flat against walls through a particular map to ensure they cover the absolute shortest distance possible on the map. Or someone who takes huge turns to maximize average/top speeds at the expense of covering larger distances and/or making slower times. I'm not opposed to these sorts of statistics, though. It'd be fun to see players try to attempt different things on race maps besides just fastest time. 

As for the vertical distance, I'm still not sure if there would be a material distance between two players who have very similar distances traveled and top/avg speed and the # of jumps. Even on a map like rek-Staro, if they're taking the same route (which the distance traveled should still most likely indicate whether or not it also includes vertical distance traveled), their # of jumps should be just as similar. I can only imagine a map with some really odd alternate routes or a gratuitous number of ramp/double/triple jumps might result in a material difference in the # of jumps. I guess it's another "fun" stat, but in the case of achieving the fastest time, parsimony would dictate that # of jumps could be ignored as it should be a function of route and speed. 

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Great idea for race! But to be honest I can't see this leading to anything other than banter about playstyles in duel.

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16 hours ago, lolograde said:

For example, someone could walk (slowly) flat against walls through a particular map to ensure they cover the absolute shortest distance possible on the map. Or someone who takes huge turns to maximize average/top speeds at the expense of covering larger distances and/or making slower times.

That's why I think jump count is better way to measure performance than distance. I would even argue jump counts is a better measurement of distance than literal distance itself, because like you say - the literal travel distance can be manipulated with slow and careful movement, which is not really the right way to play race. Also I made the point about vertical distance, if it doesn't count it then it's going to measure distance wrong in more vertical maps and if it does measure vertical distance then you can again manipulate it by simply not jumping.*

People have used jump count as a measure (albeit manually) in trickjumps and defrag since forever, because it's intuitive for the kind of gameplay race/defrag has. Showing both jump count and speed gives clear implication of ones performance between technique and route. For example if somebody breaks the run record and if there's deviance in jump count but not in speed (let's say that the speed is even slower than you), then that's a clear implication that the person improved on a better route. Seeing the stats this way show players what they need to focus on.

*You can of course also manipulate jump counts by not jumping, but I'd personally be okay with that. That's also why I mentioned "current game stats", nobody would bother breaking them because it would always reset. It's just a fun/convenient way to analyze other people's performance. I would not mind all time stats either though, but that's another load of work and would not chase the same benefits.

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On 11/08/2016 at 11:28 PM, Terifire said:

Great idea for race! But to be honest I can't see this leading to anything other than banter about playstyles in duel.

This banter happens already as you well know...

Movement being such a core part of the game, it might be valuable to the devs/community to see how changes impact how the game is played, just like you would with weapons  stats. It's simply valuable information, in many different ways. I don't think we shouldn't get it just because the slower paced players (who get criticised already regardless) might get their feelings hurt. 

 

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The banter already happening is hardly a good argument.

That's like saying "Oh well, people are pirating games already, I might as well just pirate it myself". It's a strange way of rationalising it.

It might be useful to the devs, in that case I'd much rather have them gather that information without presenting it to the users.

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It is when you claim it would lead to banter - this banter happens already without the stats. The inclusion of these types of stats in the scoreboard would likely lift the quality of those discussions with data, rather than relying on perception as it stands.

 

It's could be a useful performance metric for improvement, whether you want to move more or less. 

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21 minutes ago, thelawenforcer said:

It is when you claim it would lead to banter - this banter happens already without the stats. The inclusion of these types of stats in the scoreboard would likely lift the quality of those discussions with data, rather than relying on perception as it stands.

 

It's could be a useful performance metric for improvement, whether you want to move more or less. 

It sure as hell can bring more banter with it.

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So what? The same logic could apply to weapon stats. Those also lead to banter about playstyles and contrasting weapon preferences. 

I understand you resent the criticism that you receive regarding your playstyles, but protecting your feelings is no reason not to explore the addition of movement statistics to the end of game stats. 

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1 hour ago, thelawenforcer said:

So what? The same logic could apply to weapon stats. Those also lead to banter about playstyles and contrasting weapon preferences. 

I understand you resent the criticism that you receive regarding your playstyles, but protecting your feelings is no reason not to explore the addition of movement statistics to the end of game stats. 

It DOES apply to weapon stats as well.

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