fuglaa

Bolt Instaswitch (100ms)

Bolt Instaswitch   36 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think bolt instaswitch is mechanically broken? (free 80dmg/unbalanced)


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25 posts in this topic

if its broken on bolt, its broken on everything, such as instarockets after shaft or whatever. i for one find it a legit way to maximize damage for any given opportunity. its also very satisfying to hit nice combos with the bolt. removing it would also make the bolt weaker, when its already the weakest of the triad. 

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Personally I don't think so. It lets you punish.

15 minutes ago, thelawenforcer said:

removing it would also make the bolt weaker, when its already the weakest of the triad. 

You just summoned terifire.

atP and fuglaa like this

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It isn't free. For a start, you have to pick up the weapon. And know it as a tactic. And it isn't a sure thing either. I don't see a problem with it, anyway :D

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Remove Bolt gun completely and replace it with stake gun. Been enjoying it so much more on experimental at the moment.

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4 hours ago, seekax said:

It's not free damage since you have 1500ms reload delay and i don't think the flow of the game should be messed with, that's reflex's main appeal (abolish the switch delay completely pls).

someone (sorry for not citing) commented on the forum when they noticed that, I think it was the highest possible circle jump speed got lower (tested by wall running) "Slowflex"... @Smilecythe told me that too... I think it was Smilecythe who listed the ground speeds of different afps in that thread if I remember correctly...

would be for speeding it up again not only switch delay... not that it would help me but I want to see the fastest paced action possible...

higher movement speed makes the "free" 80dmg also harder to hit... anyway might have to watch your games but do you @fuglaa hit such a high percentage of "free" 80 dmg that it feels broken to you against players with high skill movement?

(of course every change has effects on the game as a whole and might make further changes necessary and so on and so on...)

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13 minutes ago, Aletheia said:

higher movement speed makes the "free" 80dmg also harder to hit... anyway might have to watch your games but do you @fuglaa hit such a high percentage of "free" 80 dmg that it feels broken to you against players with high skill movement?

I'm not talking about me - I'm asking everyone on their opinions :)

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Just now, fuglaa said:

I'm not talking about me - I'm asking everyone on their opinions :)

and I was asking you because it interests me ;)

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1 minute ago, Aletheia said:

and I was asking you because it interests me ;)

12/24 17/38 8/15 8/14 = 45/91(49.45%) in my last 5 parsed games vs kyto

this doesnt really mean much as i rarely combo anyways and I guess its a pretty small sample size

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1 minute ago, fuglaa said:

12/24 17/38 8/15 8/14 = 45/91(49.45%) in my last 5 parsed games vs kyto

this doesnt really mean much as i rarely combo anyways and I guess its a pretty small sample size

yeah overall percentage is a different case...

but you seem not to say yes or no but let it unanswered :P;)

of course you don't need to...

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I quite like the low switch delay in general, would even like it to be lower. The bolt's problem is inherent in it being a high frontal damage hitscan weapon, which imo is a recipe for cancer in every game. the mechanic itself gives far too much power to the in-control player. Like a shotgun except without the caveat that you have to make yourself an easy target in many cases to maximize your damage output. the problem is even more apparent in arena modes where positioning is much less of a factor and players just boltwhore to their heart's content.

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16 minutes ago, doombro said:

I quite like the low switch delay in general, would even like it to be lower. The bolt's problem is inherent in it being a high frontal damage hitscan weapon, which imo is a recipe for cancer in every game. the mechanic itself gives far too much power to the in-control player. Like a shotgun except without the caveat that you have to make yourself an easy target in many cases to maximize your damage output. the problem is even more apparent in arena modes where positioning is much less of a factor and players just boltwhore to their heart's content.

so then you would prefer a game without a Bolt/Rail like QW?

I have to say that in atdm even as a noob I don't get "bolt-whored" if I am not in a very bad position and try to out-bolt someone with way better aim...

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I see 2 problems of bolt and 1 can be solved easily (maybe put it to experimental plox?)

A. Low Damage, 80 dmg is not that rewarding when you have fast rockets/grenades/melle with 100 dmg at direct

B. Switch delay is colossal, if someone miss using bolt, he is basically fucked and can't survive. Main reason why people don't want to use it. Smaller delay but same reload speed is good compromise imo.

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22 hours ago, ToRRent said:

B. Switch delay is colossal, if someone miss using bolt, he is basically fucked and can't survive. Main reason why people don't want to use it. Smaller delay but same reload speed is good compromise imo.

Where are these people that don't want to do IC->BR combos? Are we playing the same game?

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3 hours ago, Speedbot said:

Where are these people that don't want to do IC->BR combos? Are we playing the same game?

It's possible with 100ms anyway to IC BR combo... you would need a really long switch delay to prevent this... or an IC-cooldown before you can switch from IC to another weapon...

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On 8/30/2016 at 2:57 AM, ToRRent said:

I see 2 problems of bolt and 1 can be solved easily (maybe put it to experimental plox?)

A. Low Damage, 80 dmg is not that rewarding when you have fast rockets/grenades/melle with 100 dmg at direct

B. Switch delay is colossal, if someone miss using bolt, he is basically fucked and can't survive. Main reason why people don't want to use it. Smaller delay but same reload speed is good compromise imo.

it seems most people would prefer even less BR dmg... could read this thread:

concerning B same problem was often mentioned concerning RL vs IC situation if you miss the first rocket and the other player has a good tracking aim...

 

somehow it should probably be in a way like that if you miss you loose that's a shooter I guess but yeah the weapon balance if of course an important subject I just can't really see why you should survive if you miss... and that from a player which has a laptop with a refresh rate that makes hitting a bolt in fast paced situation pretty hard :D

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i don't think its broken. the 100ms switch delay make the ic->bolt combo a bit harder to pull off than in in cpm, which is a good thing imo.
 the reason i like the combo to stay in, is that its satisfying to pull off, and nice to see someone pull it off. even in cpm, where it was borderline free damage, it was always a "nice" moment, if someone pulled off the combo.

 

im not in favor of replacing bolt with stake completely, and i think the only argument for this is doing something different for the sake of doing something different. it makes the only true ranged weapon in the game pretty much random, or reduces it to prediction spam shots only(which i think can be nice, but the bolt can already do this, so its not really necessary).

 

the 1500ms reload on the bolt is a good balance imo that makes you think "shit" once youve accidentally used the boltgun in the wrong situation and the weapon in itself makes people run around the map more cautiously. i remember for example having a pretty good game vs tripwire where he didn't expose himself to boltshots for the whole stretch of the game and it was really annoying to me.

all in all, every weapon seems overpowered in some situations, and people get annoyed by instant 80 damage. but 80 damage is practically never enough to  kill in an even match and even the worst rail whores dont really get very far with it.

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20 minutes ago, dansen said:

i don't think its broken. the 100ms switch delay make the ic->bolt combo a bit harder to pull off than in in cpm, which is a good thing imo.
 the reason i like the combo to stay in, is that its satisfying to pull off, and nice to see someone pull it off. even in cpm, where it was borderline free damage, it was always a "nice" moment, if someone pulled off the combo.

 

im not in favor of replacing bolt with stake completely, and i think the only argument for this is doing something different for the sake of doing something different. it makes the only true ranged weapon in the game pretty much random, or reduces it to prediction spam shots only(which i think can be nice, but the bolt can already do this, so its not really necessary).

 

the 1500ms reload on the bolt is a good balance imo that makes you think "shit" once youve accidentally used the boltgun in the wrong situation and the weapon in itself makes people run around the map more cautiously. i remember for example having a pretty good game vs tripwire where he didn't expose himself to boltshots for the whole stretch of the game and it was really annoying to me.

all in all, every weapon seems overpowered in some situations, and people get annoyed by instant 80 damage. but 80 damage is practically never enough to  kill in an even match and even the worst rail whores dont really get very far with it.

very elaborate contribution...!

but who said to replace the bolt with stake??? that would be crazy... as I said before I think the bolt and stake should be unique in their own right and I think as also said the stake should still be a bit tweaked so it is harder to hit to achieve this... I think the trajectory is to flat... and maybe the bolt to thick...

we played some Painkiller the other day and (of course also because of the bad netcode) is way harder to hit which makes it in my opinion a valid 4th high dmg weapon and the triad RL-IC-BR could expand a tetrade if the stake is hardest to hit and has the highest dmg.

What would make the stake I suppose also in duel a valid addition...!

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10 hours ago, Speedbot said:

Where are these people that don't want to do IC->BR combos? Are we playing the same game?

I rarely do it

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55 minutes ago, fuglaa said:

I rarely do it

:D and still being able to beat Kyto so it seems not that big of a problem...

have to say it also rarely happens to me... the combo I mean... beating Kyto probably will never happen to me ;)

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7 hours ago, dansen said:

i don't think its broken. the 100ms switch delay make the ic->bolt combo a bit harder to pull off than in in cpm, which is a good thing imo.
 the reason i like the combo to stay in, is that its satisfying to pull off, and nice to see someone pull it off. even in cpm, where it was borderline free damage, it was always a "nice" moment, if someone pulled off the combo.

It makes it slightly harder but it's still viable for spawnfrags, so the only purpose the weapon switch delay is supposed to have it doesn't really have. When you switch between any other weapons it's just an annoyance without a purpose, i don't see the point of making every other weapon combo feel considerably worse in favor of making one slightly op combo a little less convenient to pull off. Even if it worked as intended that would be a bad trade off.

I agree with the rest though, bolt seems in a solid place right now.

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I liked the idea fuglaa brought up which is where you can still do fast combos with the BR but it has to charge/wind up for a short period of time before it will do max damage. For example, the max damage of the BR could be kept the same but if you do an IC to BR or RL to BR combo as fast as possible, it might only do 50 or 60 damage. Keeps the game fast and allows people to do the same combos as before but there's less of a reward for taking some of the lower risk bolt shots that result from rocket pops or someone retreating behind a corner. 

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