HaraldQuake

Detailtextures

47 posts in this topic

I just think that it's fairly stupid that forexample Quake 4, a game from 2005 if fully maxed out, looks way more better than Reflex maxed out (Reflex 2014 arguably gave a good challenge though, eventhough everything was only placeholder level of stuff).

Like I said already. Obviously the pro players would run it in the picmip mode but it's a fact that high definition visuals attract general gamers more than something that isn't "nice and shiny".

lostfleet2.jpg

ss_4fc9cf348deb1468aca20501c2e576dea8f48

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah man that lighting and those shadows really do look..... Shitty, compared to Reflex.
I'm not sure what to say to be honest.. You seem to think that reflex 2014 looks better than what it does now, which is sorta hilarious since the LARGE majority of maps was just dev_grey back then, and those which tried to make use of the textures usually did in a bland fashion (dp4_brickstack for example)
Not too sure which maps you're thinking of, but literally none of the maps i can think of did any sort of intricate detailing that comes even remotely close to what we have now for most played duel maps.
Reflex definitely is "nice and shiny" - Whether you like the style or not, but then again you don't seem to have any grasp on computer graphics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, spessu_sb said:

Sure it is..

I think you might be the minority opinion here. Reflex looks great. At HQ, high resolution settings, the lighting and shadows, the particle effects, and the gibs (especially the gibs), look very nice. Sometimes it's hard to appreciate on plain maps or while playing a match, so you should try cranking up gfx and watching a demo in slow motion in replay editor. Looks $$$.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm honestly wondering why this thread is still ongoing. Like. . . . The artstyle won't change. . . What's the point again? And yeah. . . . A big freaking lol for the q4 comparison. Like . . . . Holy shit . . . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, promEUs said:

I'm not sure what to say to be honest.. You seem to think that reflex 2014 looks better than what it does now, which is sorta hilarious

reflex "2014" would look better if they had go on with it (no money i know), nothing hilarious here...

after 9 years q4 still looks awesome... and even better then reflex

 

(but if you go for a XIII comic game then yes, reflex looks better)

spessu_sb likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@fht Is that a fair comparison? A modded AAA title versus an indie game still in alpha built from scratch (not on top of an existing game engine)?

These sorts of threads bug me. Devs working hard with really limited resources and people start these sorts of threads just to criticize the devs for not having X, Y, and/or Z features of games with 50x the number of people working on them. It's like, what do you think is going to happen? "Oh, yes, you're right... Reflex looks like garbage. Worse than game from 10 years ago. Let us rejoice together."

Dunno bout you guys, but I bought this game for $20 and have 500 game hours logged and enjoyed. That's a pretty good deal, imo... And considering I spend most of my time traveling at 1,200+ ups, with my dick flapping in the wind, feeling like a warrior-king, rust_texture1 and rust_texture2 would be pretty fucking wasted on me.

Edited by lolograde
sensi_, Grybzt, slobo^- and 8 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@lolograde is it fair some guys laugh at @spessu_sb even hes right? is it fair to compare reflex "2014" (with 3-4 placeholder textures) and reflex 0.46 (better lightning, more meshes)?

if you like comic style games -> reflex is good

there was no disrespect from me, its just reality...

spessu_sb likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, lolograde said:

@fht Is that a fair comparison? A modded AAA title versus an indie game still in alpha built from scratch (not on top of an existing game engine)?

These sorts of threads bug me. Devs working hard with really limited resources and people start these sorts of threads just to criticize the devs for not having X, Y, and/or Z features of games with 50x the number of people working on them. It's like, what do you think is going to happen? "Oh, yes, you're right... Reflex looks like garbage. Worse than game from 10 years ago. Let us rejoice together."

Dunno bout you guys, but I bought this game for $20 and have 500 game hours logged and enjoyed. That's a pretty good deal, imo... And considering I spend most of my time traveling at 1,200+ ups, with my dick flapping in the wind, feeling like a warrior-king, rust_texture1 and rust_texture2 would be pretty fucking wasted on me.

lolograde wins this thread

lolograde, Yasashii, Jaguar and 4 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Reflex had anything like the graphics in that video I'd now be replying to a thread complaining about visibility. Every competitive game that has textures and lighting to make it look good just forces people to make it look like potato for the sake of visibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, fht said:

@lolograde is it fair some guys laugh at @spessu_sb even hes right? is it fair to compare reflex "2014" (with 3-4 placeholder textures) and reflex 0.46 (better lightning, more meshes)?

if you like comic style games -> reflex is good

there was no disrespect from me, its just reality...

Reality of what? What @spessu_sb claimed was from a technical standpoint, wrong. Argueing based on "what if reflex 2014 continued the artstyle" is also pointless and doesn't achieve anything. Whether you find the style reflex currently has appealing or not is obviously subjective, the comparision spessu gave with his q4 screenshot is hilarious.

Electro and DraQu like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@fht That's exactly my point. Reflex has more a comic look and XIII is quite good comparison. Sure there's some lighting effects but ultimately, it's not as shiny as q4 is.

Obviously wether or not you like more realistic/serious look, is personal preference but admittedly q4 still looks better because textures give that extra detail to it, and because it also has lighting and shadow effects which look really nice (that img I linked, doesn't really do enough justice to it and if you don't know it how good it can look, then you just don't know it).

@banReflex Missed the topic big time? I said all along that "obviously for the competitive play, ppl would still use picmip". Graphics would just attract the general public and would be nice for demos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, promEUs said:

Reality of what?  

reality of a guy that judge things by brain instead of emotions, a thing you should learn. mr fanboy

11 hours ago, promEUs said:

Yeah man that lighting and those shadows really do look..... Shitty, compared to Reflex.
I'm not sure what to say to be honest..  

11 hours ago, promEUs said:

What @spessu_sb claimed was from a technical standpoint, wrong. 

what now? does it look better, or only technical?

 

 

its pointless but thats the whole reason behind this thread

edit/ damn english

On 3.10.2016 at 7:44 AM, promEUs said:

Argueing based on "what if reflex 2014 continued the artstyle" is also pointless and doesn't achieve anything

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Textures aren't happening for reflex. It's our first indie title entirely from scratch built from absolutely nothing with 3 people. We haven't even been full-time for the entirety of the project.

That q4 video linked looks horrible. Not just aesthetically but also from a technical standpoint. If that's the standard expected from textures then I'd rather not have textures anyway.

Each quake title had full-time staff in a studio environment (yes believe it or not being in the same location helps *gasp*)

Q4 had about 40+ staff for 2 years? Was built on existing doom3

Doom3 40+ staff built on q3 (yes major renderer rewrite... but there's a lot more to a game than a rendering pipeline..that's the small part in the grand scheme of things)

Q3 built on q2... couple of years 30+ staff?

Q2 built on q1... couple of years 20+ staff?

Q1 built for years with 10+ staff and multiple rewrites along the way (6 iirc)

It's all good and well to try say what it should and shouldn't be, but some education is needed on development resources and timelines. To then try and compare a title built with 10 times the amount of resources of tech and tools developed over a decade prior... how about trying to compare it to something built from scratch by 3 people in our timeline. Having a hard time finding something to compare it to? Yeah me too.

Yasashii, Grybzt, lolograde and 8 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Electro said:

Textures aren't happening for reflex. It's our first indie title entirely from scratch built from absolutely nothing with 3 people. We haven't even been full-time for the entirety of the project.

That q4 video linked looks horrible. Not just aesthetically but also from a technical standpoint. If that's the standard expected from textures then I'd rather not have textures anyway.

Each quake title had full-time staff in a studio environment (yes believe it or not being in the same location helps *gasp*)

Q4 had about 40+ staff for 2 years? Was built on existing doom3

Doom3 40+ staff built on q3 (yes major renderer rewrite... but there's a lot more to a game than a rendering pipeline..that's the small part in the grand scheme of things)

Q3 built on q2... couple of years 30+ staff?

Q2 built on q1... couple of years 20+ staff?

Q1 built for years with 10+ staff and multiple rewrites along the way (6 iirc)

It's all good and well to try say what it should and shouldn't be, but some education is needed on development resources and timelines. To then try and compare a title built with 10 times the amount of resources of tech and tools developed over a decade prior... how about trying to compare it to something built from scratch by 3 people in our timeline. Having a hard time finding something to compare it to? Yeah me too.

Don't take this the wrong way. . . . But why did you go for the first artstyle then at all? Shouldn't it have been clear as day you couldn't pull it off? Or did you thought your resources and timelines would be sufficient? 

And why should a customer compare something based on resources? It's completely irrelevant to the customer. He compares product a with product b. Nothing more. It might not be fair, but that's reality. 

Don't try to justify your choices. Honestly . It doesn't help anyone nor does it change anything, especially if you go the "yeah, but keep in mind that bla bla bla"-route. If you wanna justify decisions just go and say why it's better for YOUR product and be done with it. Don't compare to others and especially don't try to educate a customer... Especially with weird arguments. 

 

I'm more than happy with the artstyle. The progress and quality we are seeing in the current timeframe is simply great, not to mention the possibilities. 

No hard feelings. Do your thing. Worked out well so far, didn't it? 

 

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The concepts shown in the kickstarter were for a style going down the kickstarter route. As well as work done leading up to it.

The early tests in early access with a few textures were just that, tests.

We've said many times before why this route is better, even when making the transition to it in length announcements.

It's faster to produce assets. People turn textures off anyway. As the style has evolved it outperforms needing to do texture lookups and chew a lot of memory. Allows flexibility while mapping to scale assets arbitrarily without having to worry about texel inconsistencies.

I think you're definitely onto something with saying not to try and educate the customers. Best I just stay away from these sorts of threads.

Grybzt, Jaguar, A. Benz and 4 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if and when you do decide to advertise the game a bit more, you definately should highlight the 'high visibility visual style' or whatever. whether or not thats the only reason is irrelevant, might aswell present it in the best way possible, and lets face it, you arent really going to attract vast numbers of casuals so might aswell market things that the likely players will care about ^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thelawenforcer said:

if and when you do decide to advertise the game a bit more, you definately should highlight the 'high visibility visual style' or whatever. whether or not thats the only reason is irrelevant, might aswell present it in the best way possible, and lets face it, you arent really going to attract vast numbers of casuals so might aswell market things that the likely players will care about ^^

The focus should be on gameplay -- fun, fast, and skill-based -- which the gfx are meant to compliment. It is for high visibility/clarity, yes, but it's also a stylistic choice, as well. I don't recall casual players being put off by TF2's "cartoonish" gfx...

Reflex has a great base style to work with and I think there's room to add lots of personality. Like the "angry droid" head is a great idea. The various melee weapons. And so on. Rocket League has a lot of ways to "customize" your vehicle that does not impact gameplay. I imagine that's the plan for Reflex. Like, in race mode, various style choices for a player's tracer trail (dolla bills, sparkles, smoke, etc.). 

Grybzt likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i know the gfx look good and that its a stylistic choice and that its easier on the devs and all those things. i just wanted to point out that beyond that, the fact that the style lends itself to high visibility well (while also looking good) is a selling point, as the type of fps player likely to be attracted to reflex (or get it recommended by steam etc) tend to care about such things. its just another good thing about reflex ;)

lolograde likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now