shooter

Reflex 0.48.0 - Matchmaking + Ironguard + more

53 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, csgo_is_cancer said:

pls make it possible to play on clean versions of maps

This! Also why are we limited for only 3 maps? 3 maps are totally not enough to choose from , most of played matches me and my random opponent wanted totally different map,what if i don't know any of maps given ? There should be at least 10-15 most popular map column , where you can choose from. It's not encouraging to use MM system , if i must quit every second match , because lack of chosen map list.

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6 minutes ago, NicholasWalters said:

This! Also why are we limited for only 3 maps? 3 maps are totally not enough to choose from , most of played matches me and my random opponent wanted totally different map,what if i don't know any of maps given ? There should be at least 10-15 most popular map column , where you can choose from. It's not encouraging to use MM system , if i must quit every second match , because lack of chosen map list.

So you want other people having to learn 8 maps of which probably more than a half aren't even popular, just because you don't want to learn the "most popular" maps? I'm confused at what you are trying to achieve here.

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14 minutes ago, A. Benz said:

So you want other people having to learn 8 maps of which probably more than a half aren't even popular, just because you don't want to learn the "most popular" maps? I'm confused at what you are trying to achieve here.

No i just say matchmaking is supposed to match me vs player my skill level. thats it. Not force me to play some random "popular maps" and give poor 1 of 3 choose only ,if you don't like or know  them , quit and take loose.You ranked me vs some player equal my skill, that's it , thank you! Let our selves choose map we want to play.As i say'd this could be fixed by letting choose from more maps then only 3.

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I don't usually do this but im gonna be a bit critic on people being reductant to play new / unknown maps (for them), for several reasons but mainly because it's community work; everyone who starts a map would love to see it played. But also because I've experienced in other games that when you can set a certain map in particular nobody plays those other maps... for example in OW you're forced to play all of them... why would they make content if people end up playing one or two maps? Also you get people who get to higher ranks by playing one map only... it happened in QL with many people playing ztn only or in csgo playing dust2 only...

I'm just saying not hating, this is my point of view. After all I think you can learn more about the game playing a more diverse map pool.

Big first step for reflex, Good job devs, congrats on this one however it really needs tweaks.

bej, DraQu, furyaxsfigkjhn and 9 others like this

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i agree with memphis.

and also, the "chose between these three maps"-system is a nice compromise between letting people have some freedom of choice and making people step out of their comfort zone every so often. a competitive/ranked gamemode needs people to not only play their favorite maps imo. i think cs:go's system also works well but theres really not much reason to complain here.

i get it that some people prefer clean maps but i guess they're just not in the map pool at the moment ;)

there will always be people that make a fuss, but not getting your favorite map in a competitive mappool on the day the mm system gets introduced really isn't a good reason. on top of that the maps will most likely rotate around in some form anyway...

Edited by dansen
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*I've yet to finish my placement matches, so I can't really comment on the ranking system (though apparently fuglaa lost points for 40-0'ing somebody -- that should never happen in competitive).

My suggestions:

  • Add a "suggest rematch" option at the end of a match
  • Make players f3 in the warmup server when they want to start searching for a match. That way, it's easier to take a breather.
  • Add a "warmup" check to lua for warmup specific widgets (like rank, system time, automute etc etc)
  • Make the current league ruleset the comp standard -- personally I dislike it, but it's the community standard at this point. Make Rama's ruleset the default experimental.
  • For competitive, make a 5(?) map pool, a region based core mappool consisting of 3 (?) maps that are 'universally' accepted as good, balanced and competitive (for eu I'm thinking thct7, thct2 and as much as I hate to say it, dp5), one slot filled by "off maps" (maps that were played in the past, but some people love and others hate, for instance bdm3, ruin and static) and the last slot filled by an untested map with potential (my vote goes to sanctum).  The last two slots rotate every x weeks. Could copypaste Blizzard's season system on top of it.
  • Allow user run servers to be included in the ranking (obviously this will force the server settings to whatever official servers run and you wouldn't be able to do placement matches on them)
  • Add an option to do warmup on movement maps
  • If this isn't the case already, make comp duel ranking purely win/loss based.
Edited by Pill_

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5 hours ago, NicholasWalters said:

This! Also why are we limited for only 3 maps? 3 maps are totally not enough to choose from , most of played matches me and my random opponent wanted totally different map,what if i don't know any of maps given ? There should be at least 10-15 most popular map column , where you can choose from. It's not encouraging to use MM system , if i must quit every second match , because lack of chosen map list.

Learn the map pool, that's just part of the game. You also state that the only purpose of matchmaking is to match you with a similarly skilled player, there is no basis for that. Due to the rankings it looks like they are going for some sort of competitive ladder. 

 

24 minutes ago, Pill_ said:

 

  • Add a "suggest rematch" option at the end of a match
  • Add a "warmup" check to lua for warmup specific widgets (like rank, system time, automute etc etc)
  • For competitive, make a 5(?) map pool, a region based core mappool consisting of 3 (?) maps that are 'universally' accepted as good, balanced and competitive (for eu I'm thinking thct7, thct2 and as much as I hate to say it, dp5), one slot filled by "off maps" (maps that were played in the past, but some people love and others hate, for instance bdm3, ruin and static) and the last slot filled by an untested map with potential (my vote goes to sanctum).  The last two slots rotate every x weeks. Could copypaste Blizzard's season system on top of it.
  • Allow user run servers to be included in the ranking (obviously this will force the server settings to whatever official servers run and you wouldn't be able to do placement matches on them)
  • Add an option to do warmup on movement maps

Suggest rematch could become a problem for the integrity of the rankings. 

That map pool system seems way to clunky, the way it is now makes most sense. Just a bunch of maps. What I would like to see is a couple of vetos and map pool rotations at some point.

Allowing user run servers to be included in the ranking is just a horrible idea. It brings nothing but problems. Literally.

Also option to do warm up on movement maps seems odd, just go on a movement  map and warm up if that is what you want to do. 

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17 hours ago, Ramagan said:

-Display the map pool like you display the servers and let people choose what they want to play (starcraft/csgo style), some people don't want to play certain maps and others just want to only play a specific one.

 

 

Starcraft and csgo have different approaches to map pools. Starcraft style is superior if they want to push competitive ladder being a thing.

 

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Hey @shooter, an idea to rework casual FFA + CTF matchmaking, similar to how other games do it:

Firstly, imo 'quick play' and 'matchmaking' should be separate buttons on the menu for minor sake of clarity and to aid in implementing casual FFA/CTF in the way of either: splitting FFA/CTF into a ranked casual and quick play casual, or doing away entirely with a casual FFA/CTF that involves any sort of hidden elo, at least in the current state of the game with as low a playerbase as we have, in favor of adding at the very least FFA + CTF to an actual quick play menu that will connect you to public servers running these modes that fall within the ping region selected. Also, alongside that, remove the locks on the official FFA + CTF servers so that they can be used in the same way, but with both official and community FFA + CTF severs, you will still be able to connect to them through the browser as per usual. This also comes with the benefit of being able to join games in progress, having drop-in drop-out play, which may or may not be a plus, but at the least it will potentially speed up casual matchmaking to only have to wait for an open slot rather than an entire game to end and re-queue.

The servers allowed can be regulated by the dev team of course or even simply kept to the official servers, but currently I don't see many FFA's being put together through matchmaking once the population settles from the patch hype. This way FFA and maybe ctf, I think, could easily be kept consistent as players would filter in through both the browser and quick play, and if somebody really wanted to play a ranked FFA/CTF, (which if the game grows enough, I personally would use ranked CTF often) you could just keep them on the competitive list of matchmaking with their separate ELO's.

In my thinking, if you're willingly playing casual FFA/CTF, you're accepting already that there wouldn't be a hidden ELO and that somebody else in-game may be quite above your skill. This is also how CSGO does casual matchmaking, so that's where my experience with the system comes from. Sorry for the long post and my jumbled two cents since it's early and I'm at work with little sleep, it may be more difficult to read than it should be.

Also, if any of this already works in a way I've described I do apologize, I have not yet had a chance to actually play the new patch. :(

Edit: Also forgot Clan Arena, that would fit here too.

Edited by Tsarenir
Grybzt and Jaguar like this

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Could we have a spectate queue? Would be a cool way to learn for new players, or just for chilling and watching awesome players play awesome duels, would also be cool for streaming :D

Jaguar, writhe, Tsarenir and 2 others like this

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20 minutes ago, Pill_ said:

Could we have a spectate queue? Would be a cool way to learn for new players, or just for chilling and watching awesome players play awesome duels, would also be cool for streaming :D

league used to have high elo games on the front page maybe a good idea

Pill_, writhe and klyph0rd like this

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2 hours ago, Lucky said:

Suggest rematch could become a problem for the integrity of the rankings. 

That map pool system seems way to clunky, the way it is now makes most sense. Just a bunch of maps. What I would like to see is a couple of vetos and map pool rotations at some point.

Allowing user run servers to be included in the ranking is just a horrible idea. It brings nothing but problems. Literally.

Also option to do warm up on movement maps seems odd, just go on a movement  map and warm up if that is what you want to do. 

1. I get where you're coming from. I suppose it could be solved by limiting rematches to 1 game.

2. I know it's pretty complicated, but the idea is that it'd give new maps a chance and that there'd be a decent turn around for maps without making people feel screwed over because they got a map they dislike too often.

3. Ye now that I think it through, downsides would prolly be bigger than the benefits

4. It's not so much that I want to warm up on a movement map, but moreso that I don't feel the need to warm up my aim after a certain amount of games and I'd much rather just jump around without getting shot at all the time

 

One more thing, maybe it'd be a good idea to put a bigass warning somewhere that the matchmaking algorithm will need some time to gather data and sort itself out and that as a result, there's a good chance you'll get a significant mismatch relatively often.

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Great update! Still I have some feedback:

- Imo burstgun projectiles are too fast or too thin and have too tight spread

- rockets have too much splash range, maybe too much splash damage, too..

- IC ground kb is too high

- I really hope VoIP gets added for compfortable communication with random players in team based modes.

- When you add an option to queue with friends, you should add an option to only match with random players when in single queue (only search for team vs. team or search random players vs. random players only)

- when viewmodel rotation is enabled and your viewmodel is rotated very much, can you reset viewmodel rotation on IonCannon as soon as you shoot? To me it looks very irritating when viewmodel rotation is enabled and my IC beam moves around so much. Doesn't look good either.. The beam should always come straight out of the gun's barrel and not in a strange arch.

- Can you decrease the amount of sparks when IC beam hits some surface or enemy? In my opinion there are too many sparks and I get bad visibility on my enemy because it's very distracting to have so many sparks.

 

lumpp likes this

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I realize that the rankings will be a bit weird for now because the small amount of players but what distribution are you going for in the ranks?

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7 hours ago, Pill_ said:

 

  • Add a "suggest rematch" option at the end of a match

that's abusable though. get matched with a friend, spam rematch, let one person win. if it were implemented, it would need to prevent you from rematching when the MMR difference gets too high.

 

 

EDIT: just read that you've already adresed that, should've really finished reading the thread before replying :>

 

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47 minutes ago, furyaxsfigkjhn said:

Imo burstgun projectiles are too fast or too thin and have too tight spread

I think burst gun is fine as it is. You can't take people out unless they're low on health. A weak gun PLUS wide spread would be more infuriating as a last resort weapon.

Great job, devs! Drinking some wine with fresh matchmaking atm, dunno my rank yet :)

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8 hours ago, Pill_ said:

Make the current league ruleset the comp standard -- personally I dislike it, but it's the community standard at this point. Make Rama's ruleset the default experimental.

And why not make the league just use the official competitive standard the game uses? The league ruleset is trash, why would you wanna enforce it on people not playing in the league? The whole exp_plus thing was handled beyond poorly and now they have to deal with it. Shutdown exp_plus for the greater good and it's all k. For now.

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I like the current map selection. It encourages people to play more maps while giving them some choice at the same time. I think if there are 3 maps coming up that you nobody likes, the bigger issue is (at least one of) those maps shouldn't be in the map pool. For map pool discussion please go here: http://forums.reflexarena.com/index.php?/topic/4165-matchmaking-playlists-map-pools/

I don't want to include user servers in the official server pool. For several reasons including security, stability and also accountability.

We were half way through doing a rematch option but it does bring up some generic concerns. It allows you to boost someone else by continually forfeiting, yes you could limit it to 1 rematch only but it's not exactly elegant. It also breaks the whole game->lobby->game->lobby flow which is essential for ensuring everyone gets a turn. In the end we decided against it.

I'm definitely open to spectating MM games. It does bring up some concern with cheating or trolling. Trolling could be prevented by ensuring specs can only talk to themselves. Cheating is a little harder, ideally we'd have some kind of proxy server providing X second delays however we don't have any of that tech setup. Open to thoughts/suggestions here.

Official MM server filter is coming #soon in 48.1

Gameplay changes/standards are coming in 48.1

So many posts :-)

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6 hours ago, shooter said:

It does bring up some concern with cheating or trolling.

If we are on this topic, can you define chating? Because last time I checked, altering game files to make some effects transparent was allowed.

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6 hours ago, shooter said:

I'm definitely open to spectating MM games. It does bring up some concern with cheating or trolling. Trolling could be prevented by ensuring specs can only talk to themselves. Cheating is a little harder, ideally we'd have some kind of proxy server providing X second delays however we don't have any of that tech setup. Open to thoughts/suggestions here.

You could make allowing specs optional, add a checkbox to the quick play menu with a warning that you could potentially get ghosted when enabled. It's far from ideal, but it'd suffice until you guys can get around to setting up proxy servers,

Also, one more quality of life suggestion and then I swear I'll stop, would it be possible to add a 'download replay' button at the end game screen?

Edited by Pill_
Jaguar, promEUs and dansen like this

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