shooter

Matchmaking Playlists & Map Pools

39 posts in this topic

Hey lads,

So with the Matchmaking release there have been many questions about what exactly the playlists are, and what map pools are in them etc. In this post i'll attempt to lay it out in a clean way (there's a fair bit of info).

Please note this is a first pass, we're very much looking for feedback on here for what people want to play & what is most popular. Do keep in mind maps should be Reflex unique *, should play and look good. I have to like them too :) -- perks of the job :)

Rulesets:

  • The casual playlists use casual ruleset
  • The competitive playlists use competitive ruleset

(Yes, I thought this was obvious too :))

(Note: We're currently looking at pulling things from experimental over to competitive. This will happen over the upcoming point releases as usual)

Mutators:

  • "arena" is used on "Arena Duel" & "Clan Arena"
  • "instagib" is used on "Instantgib"

Maps:

  • Static Discharge (2-4 players)
  • Ruin (2-4 players)
  • Ashur (3-6 players)
  • Fusion (2-4 players)
  • The Catalyst (2-3 players)
  • Furnace (2-3 players)
  • The Missing link (Thct6) (2-4 players)
  • Hieretic (8-12 players)
  • 421 (2-4 players)
  • Sky Temples (6-10 players)
  • Monolith (6-10 players)
  • Phobos (2-4 players)
  • Ironguard (2-4 players)
  • Simplicity (2-4 players)
  • Pocket Infinity (2-4 players)
  • Sanctum (2-4 players)

Playlists:

Playlists can support a range of players as shown on the UI (i.e. Clan Arena is 4-8 players), So I won't bother listing the player counts per playlist here. However what is important to realise is that, the map pool is filtered based on number of players. I.e. so if a 4 player Clan Arena game pops, Hieretic would be ruled out.

Also note that, while the map pool may contain several maps, at random 3 will be chosen to vote between before the match.

  • FFA = Static Discharge, Ruin, Fusion, The Missing Link, 421, Thermal Blast, Ironguard, Ashur, Simplicity, Pocket Infinity, Sanctum, Hieretic
  • FFA Instagib = Static Discharge, Ruin, Fusion, The Missing Link, 421, Thermal Blast, Ironguard, Ashur, Simplicity, Pocket Infinity, Sanctum, Hieretic
  • Clan Arena = Static Discharge, Ruin, Fusion, The Missing Link, 421, Thermal Blast, Ironguard, Ashur, Simplicity, Pocket Infinity, Sanctum, Hieretic
  • TDM = Static Discharge, Ruin, Fusion, The Missing Link, 421, Thermal Blast, Ironguard, Ashur, Simplicity, Pocket Infinity, Sanctum, Hieretic
  • CTF = Sky Temples, Monolith
  • Arena Duel = Static Discharge, Ruin, Fusion, Furnace, The Catalyst, 421, Simplicity, Pocket Infinity, Sanctum
  • Duel = Static Discharge, Ruin, Fusion, Furnace, The Catalyst, 421, Simplicity, Pocket Infinity, Sanctum
  • Doubles = Ironguard, Thermal Blast, Phobos, Ashur
  • Competitive Duel = The Catalyst, Static Discharge, Ruin, Furnace, 421, Simplicity, Pocket Infinity, Sanctum
  • Competitive Doubles = Ironguard, Thermal Blast, Phobos, Ashur
  • Competitive CTF = Sky Temples, Monolith

 

Thanks!

-- Shooter

 

* = (or we have property legal authority to use them)

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I agree with truck, that perhaps the Clean version of Pocket Infinity be used since is has some seriously improved performance over the original and some consistency fixes with the geometry.

I think Sanctum should be added to the 1v1 map pool
Also Abandoned Shelter possibly added to the 1v1 map pool (current issues with it lacking ammo packs though)

If possible, It'd be good for in competitive mode that there would be more than 3 potential map choices, im thinking on the order of 5 or so, if we are going to include maps that are generally not played at a high level such as 421, Ruin, and Simplicity (for EU).

NicholasWalters likes this

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Rather than have to make a playlist, why can't we just have the option to select the maps we want to cue for?

You could even pull the data to show the most played maps to get a real sense of what is popular, the workshop voting system will never give a truly accurate value.

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Here's my list of maps/suggested changes.

  • I'm not really sure how I feel about FFA being added to the matchmaking list. If anything, I was expecting it to search for an on-going FFA game and just toss the player into an available server. But I can see how some people might want to start a game fresh, like the way it is now. If it stays like this, maybe the minimum players required for a game can increase to 5+? or have the option to choose the minimum. For me at least, an FFA game isn't really fun unless there's 5+ people. Same goes for instagib.
  • Clan Arena should have the option to play on larger maps, even on low player count matches. A good amount of fun in CA comes from having the freedom to fly around with multiple rocket jumps at high speeds. On the small duel maps, this isn't really possible. Duel maps in general are kinda weird to be playing CA on, but I guess since we're limited on maps to use, it kind of works? A good example of a decent CA map is 'Ascension', on the workshop.
  • Competitive 2v2 timelimit should be 15 minutes instead of 20.
  • Sanctum should be added to Competitive Duel.
  • Competitive Duel should either have a different map veto system where all maps are electable, or do a similar queuing style to that of Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. In CS, you select a map, or multiple, to tell the matchmaking system these are the maps you want to look for a match on.
  • CTF should be 4v4 instead of 5v5. 'SunaStation' by Sab0o is a decent map to add to the CTF and Competitive CTF queues, since there's only 2 at the moment.
  • 'The Gravesite' map by def should be added to 2v2, TDM, FFA. It's usually good for 3-6 players.
promEUs, Jaguar, Skaarj and 1 other like this

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12 minutes ago, Username said:

Rather than have to make a playlist, why can't we just have the option to select the maps we want to cue for?

You could even pull the data to show the most played maps to get a real sense of what is popular, the workshop voting system will never give a truly accurate value.

You run into the issue of then people grinding their way to the top on one map they've either made themselves or heavily abuses. A select pool with a random smaller selection ensures that people who go to the top of the ladder can play more than one map =)

Grybzt, Xytaglyph and Jaguar like this

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31 minutes ago, entik said:

Here's my list of maps/suggested changes.

  • I'm not really sure how I feel about FFA being added to the matchmaking list. If anything, I was expecting it to search for an on-going FFA game and just toss the player into an available server.

This is true, in other games when hitting the "quick play" button you usually get tossed in an ongoing game and only queue for ranked competetive.

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36 minutes ago, promEUs said:

You run into the issue of then people grinding their way to the top on one map they've either made themselves or heavily abuses. A select pool with a random smaller selection ensures that people who go to the top of the ladder can play more than one map =)

 

Then force a minimum number of maps must be selected, when it comes time to vote they wont always get that map.

Also that scenario does not really pose as big of a problem as you make it seem, one map wonders eventually will be forced to play something else and get destroyed.

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Some time ago it was said that there would be a classic playlist with some old maps, you do have the rights to CPM3a and CPM22, might as well use them. Make it unranked if you want to push Reflex original maps.

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Could the "3 map selection" thing that pops up be removed ? and just handled randomly, seems unfair in my opinion if you know your opponent and are able to pick a certain map.

Could the starcraft 2 map preferences model be a thing ?

tafqdk.jpg

Just like in the current reflex system, there is a "playlist" of map, and you have 3 vetos, and are forced to play the rest of the maps you haven't vetoed.

 

Edited by Ramagan

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just in case anything of my maps needs work or whatever. everyone is free to use my maps and change/release them as long as u credit me.

 

if needed i can supply clean maps without anything for most of my maps

this is because i am very inactive at the moment

sorry in advance

Loori and Jaguar like this

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Good discussion :)

1. Tbh I personally like the clean pocket infinity too. I don't want both in the pool, i'll check it out. Is tehace okay with it or is it a shameless rip? :)

2. Happy to put Sanctum in competitive 1v1 :)

3. 2v2 timelimits fixed see: http://forums.reflexarena.com/index.php?/topic/4170-reflex-0481-immediate-fixes-gameplay-balance-adjustments/

4. I love the layout of Abandoned Shelter but visibly it needs some cleaning up, It's a bit messy with detail atm. On the other hand Furnace is a great visible balance IMHO :)

5. I kinda dig the idea of having a different vote option for competitive, I'll do some thinking after the 48 point release rush settles down.

Furioness, Flakx, Greed and 5 others like this

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1 hour ago, shooter said:

Good discussion :)

1. Tbh I personally like the clean pocket infinity too. I don't want both in the pool, i'll check it out. Is tehace okay with it or is it a shameless rip? :)

2. Happy to put Sanctum in competitive 1v1 :)

3. 2v2 timelimits fixed see: http://forums.reflexarena.com/index.php?/topic/4170-reflex-0481-immediate-fixes-gameplay-balance-adjustments/

4. I love the layout of Abandoned Shelter but visibly it needs some cleaning up, It's a bit messy with detail atm. On the other hand Furnace is a great visible balance IMHO :)

5. I kinda dig the idea of having a different vote option for competitive, I'll do some thinking after the 48 point release rush settles down.

I spoke with Tehace before publishing the Clean version, and credited him on the workshop for it as the co-author. He also commented on the map thanking me for taking the time to make it. So i didnt just rip it ;)

Greed, Jaguar and Furioness like this

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1 hour ago, shooter said:

1. Tbh I personally like the clean pocket infinity too. I don't want both in the pool, i'll check it out. Is tehace okay with it or is it a shameless rip? :)

tehace said hes ok with people doing that sort of thing.

Heres some maps you should look into adding.

1v1:

Calendar

Quickfire

Vostok Station

Wings of Doom

Rani Ki Vav

Mausoleum

Robert

Downforce

ATDM:
Bazinga

FFA:

Mausoleum

Calendar
Tephra

Bastion

Traveler2

The Gravesite

2v2:
Tephra

Bastion

Skaarj, Greed, MnstH and 3 others like this

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I'd prefer a 5-map-pool for competitive duel anyways. What's the point of having 8 maps and forcing people to play some of them ....as in: 4 out of these 8 maps didn't get played before for a reason and now sometimes (quite often) you gotta play one of those maps. Why? 5 maps should be more than enough i'd say ....at least till this game is at a point where we have more than a few actually playable maps.

 

/rant

NicholasWalters likes this

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Def. needs a different voting system. If i play the same guy 3x in a row .... i don't want to play the same map 3x in a row just becaues he doesn't vote anything else

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Just wanted to add my 2 cents for additional maps that should be considered to add to specific playlist pools. Some of these are not fully vetted by the larger community, but I think they are all well made, look good, and play reasonably fun... especially for the larger player base we are starting to pull in. I think having a handful of "experimental" maps is good for both exposure to the map makers and variety for us. Having more options seems good to me. I think with a properly reworked voting system, higher level players won't be forced to play anything they don't want to.

Duel
Calendar
Shadowfalls
Abandoned Shelter
Quickfire
XY2
Mausoleum
Outlast
Leuko
Cloister
The Missing Link
Risk


FFA
Unforgiving
Leuko
Bastion
Nillium
XY2
Bazinga
Forgiving City (might be a bit too messy? But very fun)
Sepulchre (not sure if this is a remake)
Sphinctified
The Gravesite


CTF
The Gravesite (CTF version)
Abandoned Shetler (CTF version)
Monolith
Aqueduct (not sure if this is a remake)
Casting Carnage (not sure if this is a remake)
Suna Station
Twin Keeps (not sure if this is a remake)
Gridiron Complex
 

MAD_JIHAD and Greed like this

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