Skaarj

Future of stake launcher

13 posts in this topic

Stake launcher returns hype is over and this nice weapon is in weird place right now. Old players seems to forget about it or don't care anymore and new ones don't even know it exist. I wasn't here when stake was removed first time and I don't know reasons but it looks like same thing may happen again.

Main issues with stake imo are:

  • it have almost the sam color as shotgun
  • there's no bind for stake in options
  • if map have stake it's there in every ruleset but it's available in warmup and arena modes only in experimental_stake
  • it is projectile version of railgun and have the same role as bolt.

While three first points are obvious, last one is more question then statement. For me it seems like stake have same use as bolt, it is more difficult and littile more rewarding but it's still mid-long range sniping weapon. Only exceptions are little extra reach for out of sight targets due to projectile being affected by gravity and lesser effectiveness on extreme long range. I think this is not enough for Reflex when all other weapons are unique, not like other games having 10 different types of machinegun.

I can think of one way making stake launcher more distinctive without changing weapons core characteristics. Currently stake pierces through target dealing instant damage just like bolt rifle. What if stake would stay in target instead going through it. Dealing lets say 20 initial damage on hit, and after few seconds exploding dealing main damage, 80 in this case. This way stake would need different approach than bolt while still remain fun to shoot. Exploding stake could be also used for trickjumping and controlling map to a minor extent. Well placed stake with enough luck/skill could done damage or knock back robot jumping for armor for example. I'm aware this is probably bad idea but I've been thinking about this for a while so why not share this with others. 

Please don't let stake die again. Maybe some mapping competition for duel maps with stake could help.

irish, NicholasWalters and /fragile like this

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Main reason with stake is that it's not rewarding to use - 100 damage per hit is way way too little, it should be 120-130 with slower reload time,devs seems afraid to put weapons who does more then 100 damage on direct hit, but be real here - stake mediocre  acc is 20%-25% at best. Stake is very fun and  satisfying to use , but not rewarding.There no reason now vote exp_stake for games, because difference btw hit scan Bolt is only 20 units.Another solution i heard before is make it powerup weapon - some big damage crazy weapon. Maybe finally then devs will live they'r promise of  " unique powerups" :) 

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I always though it would be better to give it like 120 damage, and have it fire after a set delay once you click so you have to lead your target. ie. like a crossbow or something where you click, it winds up for like .5 seconds and then fires the stake, followed by like a .5 second reload.

NicholasWalters likes this

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I personally lean towards the "power weapon" solution - make it spawn only in certain modes like quad and resist. Dealing something like 300 damage per shot with 5-10 shots. (this is just throwing out numbers :D)

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Yesterday I played 4 player FFA on 431 with experimental_stake and I think it was balanced and great fun. The problem is that not everybody had bindings for stake so I was the only person who used it :/.. But seriously.. On tight maps stake is a balanced weapon because it has it's situational effectiness (dealing delayed high damage through angles on mid range while having a slightly faster projectile speed than rockets but more damage than plasma, shotgun or bolt)... I don't think stake should be a boltrifle replacement because bolt is instant hit (high range) and most of the time it's easier to hit and deal damage. Stake combines advantages of RL (one hit high dmg), plasma (high projectile speed which is ideal for direct hits and blocking of tight chokepoints with pre crossfire). But ofc it also has it's disadvantages (reload time and the fact that it's projectile based and it's not that easy to hit in direct confrontations). I don't think stake should be a powerup because even with 300 damage it wouldn't be overpowered enough (carnage allows to have high rate of fire and high damage and stake is hard to hit and has low rate of fire).

I think stake should be it's own weapon (not a replacement) but it needs to become a finished weapon with a nice looking model (I'd like to see a black design to make it's color stand out and to give it a stylish evil looking individual look), weapon and ammopickups and bindings in keyboard options (I think it was 'bind game 9 weapon 9'.. But it has also to be possible to select the weapon via mousewheel).. And the game needs maps which feature the gun. For example some duel maps which are designed around having only 1 rocketlauncher but also a stakegun to counter it. Maybe RL could be placed in a risky place of the map so it's easy to get trapped there (for example make similar things like the boltrifle placements on furnace, simplicity or abandoned shelter)..

I think stake is great in ATDM and TDM. In TDM it can be used to help teammates reach higher positional levels of the map if they don't have RL or PG and to easily kill freshly spawned unarmoured enemies. I'm not sure what people think about spawnkilling in TDM and whether or not it's planned to add 125 health on spawn but I think it would be nice if stake was able to 1 hit kill fresh spawners.

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Is it at a weird place after fair deliberate testing or just due to negligence and misplacement? I made a map that deliberately restricts accessibility to certain areas, if you're not a good trickjumper then you need to depend on stake launcher which is also emphasized by the map having only one rocket launcher and one plasmagun (both in hard to reach areas).

I think what contributes to stake feeling out of place is because they quite literally are out of place. They often replace bolt, assuming their role and place against all map layout intentions. 

 

jtmuk, capo and Delementary like this

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I was also all in for stake gun months ago, nowadays i dont know. It can be used for some modes like power gun for sure. But in future it can have better potentional which is Smilecythe showing and use for movement and jumping. It was also devs idea from start i think. Though the idea is huge and there are not maps like dat and its probably really hard add the stake to gameplay of reflex and being used it for movement, jumping , tactics etc not only for "troll" gun...

 

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personally, i think in the end it is up to map architects to design their hallways accordingly to the usage of certain weapons. the nature of projectile weapons in general makes combat with them more engaging and challenging for me, especially if you can use them for movement as well. plasmagun, rocketlauncher, translocator, grappling-hook and many more.

by the way where did the grappling-hook go? :ph34r:

 

 

furyaxsfigkjhn likes this

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I think the only way for Stake gun to be something more than gimmick nobody uses. Is to make it start weapon.

Would need to increase reload time and drastically decrease damage.

tangy likes this

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Where can I find the Stake Launcher, is it actually back in the game for real now, or just the same gun edit?  Big fan of the stake launcher back when I supported the game when it first hit Steam for $15 Early Access.  Only thing is, I can't find it, so where is it? 

NicholasWalters likes this

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