Callahan

Rockets, how do you feel about them?

Rockets..   53 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about them?

    • They are perfect right now. I would change nothing.
    • They are still too strong. (Please state why you think so)
    • They are too weak. (Please state why you think so)

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41 posts in this topic

It is Feb 2017. I think we should all have a good idea by now of how we feel on the most controversial weapon. 

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For me the splash/splash damage is just too low/weak, I am not asking for a QW splash kind of thing, but surely a little bit more of splash would be nice and the clunky rocket fights would appear less often. :)

NicholasWalters likes this

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Atm the balance is perfect, but that's only because the IC reloads at 46ms.. if there were any changes made to the IC to make it stronger, then I would say that the rockets are took weak and would need a buff (speed buff of course =]).

I voted for too weak, since I think that there are a few people who think the IC is too weak atm.

Edited by LoNeZiLLa

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No1 will ever agree on weapon balance... it always degenerates into people thinking they know best and calling every1 else retards who don't have a clue.

Lorim, ceezyr, Jaguar and 4 others like this

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13 minutes ago, Joe said:

No1 will ever agree on weapon balance... 

I agree with this but not the rest. It's a matter of preference, style, and skill. And the fact that the gameplay allows for a variety of styles makes it natural that people will always want their style emphasized over others. People will inevitably favor the weapons that they rely on to win games. 

Once persistent stats are here, I'd love to see some community-wide stats on weapon use and correlations to wins at the various MM rankings. 

Edited by lolograde
Jaguar and Sharqosity like this

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I dunno if i am just bad, but i feel like sometime i shot under  some1 while he is air he got zero damage. Its really weird. I think some splash could be always there. Though i think the speed of rockets is great.

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I think the damage is good but there is not enaugh knockback. On ashur you can't rocketjump from IC up to GL and your enemies mostly don't leave the ground when you directly hit them. Mostly they just stay where they are..

It feels somehow stupid that your enemy can stand inside your rocket explosion with both legs, gets ~75 damage and doesn't get knocked back most of the time.. I think splash range should stay the same.. but knockback should definately be a bit bigger since IC air knockback feels high enaugh and rockets should have good knockback too (It's always epic to hit multiple midairs)..

Not sure about the damage cap on splashdamage... On the one hand I think it feels strange and unlogic to have capped splashdamage.. on the other hand it balances rockets a bit for close range fights against shotgun.

And really I would like to see Stakegun to replace 1 of the 2 RL in each map. So we have more weapon variety and balanced rockets. This would also allow players to deny rocketlaunchers from the enemy.. At the moment it's not really possible to deny rocketlauncher because there are two on each map and RL could aswell be your spawnweapon (you could basicly replace burstgun with RL..) 1 RL and 1 Stake on each map would be great

Edit: And for me rockets feel delayd.. Please fix that.

Edit2: I think IC should stay as is. Otherwise Shotgun and PG will be useless.

Callahan likes this

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If I'm allowed to comment on general game design for a few sentences... I think it's a real shame that so many arena shooters or quake-likes don't play around with explosive weaponry. You always have just one rocket launcher and that's it. The grenade launcher is too impractical in combat to use reliably, but it has potential (and the reflex gl is one of the better ones, even if the rockets are always better). Having 2 or multiple weapons that use explosive damage and knockback would be a lot more interesting from a game balance and combo stand point. I don't know how finalised the reflex devs feel the current arsenal is, but maybe it can be some food for thought. When I played competitive TF2 my main class was demoman and while the sticky grenades are obviously super cheesy and wouldn't fit a game like Reflex I really liked playing with strong projectile weaponry which filled different niches and allowed you to be very creative in your playstyle.

As for the reflex rl, I'm happy with it overall. I always liked the strong, "slow" rocket design generally, so if there were to be changes that is the direction I would like it to go.

arnold likes this

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i would describe rockets as fickle. they're strong when they work, they're weak when they don't, and those circumstances aren't always clear. knockback and splash are especially strange. I can never tell if I'm going to do 16, 45, or 83 damage, and when i get a direct i never know if the target is going to levitate in place for a second, shoot straight to the ceiling, or do nothing at all. the movement is especially strange. past a mild amount of speed i have to lead rocket jumps, and past a few thousand UPS, it doesn't seem to work at all.

I'd care about balance more if they actually made sense to begin with

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Rockets underpowered? I aren't think that. Maybe if your whole gameplay relies on RL and you realize you can't play like this....yeah.

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Rockets used to be good until people bitched to the point where they changed it because people can't dodge to prevent them from being popped up. Getting popped up was a punishment for not dodging. Rockets in this game now feel like rockets in UT. There is no knockback, your lucky to pop someone up to punish them for rushing you all day AND on top of that you can't block critical areas of the map people can just run all day through chokepoints its stupid.

doombro and Grybzt like this

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On 2/13/2017 at 3:53 PM, ique said:

If I'm allowed to comment on general game design for a few sentences... I think it's a real shame that so many arena shooters or quake-likes don't play around with explosive weaponry. You always have just one rocket launcher and that's it. The grenade launcher is too impractical in combat to use reliably, but it has potential (and the reflex gl is one of the better ones, even if the rockets are always better). Having 2 or multiple weapons that use explosive damage and knockback would be a lot more interesting from a game balance and combo stand point. I don't know how finalised the reflex devs feel the current arsenal is, but maybe it can be some food for thought. When I played competitive TF2 my main class was demoman and while the sticky grenades are obviously super cheesy and wouldn't fit a game like Reflex I really liked playing with strong projectile weaponry which filled different niches and allowed you to be very creative in your playstyle.

As for the reflex rl, I'm happy with it overall. I always liked the strong, "slow" rocket design generally, so if there were to be changes that is the direction I would like it to go.

Xonotic did that. I think it had like 3 different explosive weapons, all with different properties.

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I'd be interested to see how a RL with a larger projectile would play out. It's probably tf2 jading me but even rockets in QL had more 'weight' to them if that makes sense. They're easier to get hit by but also easier to dodge. ???Not sure if I'm talking out my ass but would like to try it idk¿¿¿

NicholasWalters likes this

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I'd like to see how rockets would be if they spawned further in the RL, would probably make super close range combat better. At the moment you can kinda dance around somebody with IC while he's trying to shoot rockets at his feet.

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On 2/13/2017 at 2:53 PM, ique said:

If I'm allowed to comment on general game design for a few sentences... I think it's a real shame that so many arena shooters or quake-likes don't play around with explosive weaponry. You always have just one rocket launcher and that's it. The grenade launcher is too impractical in combat to use reliably, but it has potential (and the reflex gl is one of the better ones, even if the rockets are always better). Having 2 or multiple weapons that use explosive damage and knockback would be a lot more interesting from a game balance and combo stand point. I don't know how finalised the reflex devs feel the current arsenal is, but maybe it can be some food for thought. When I played competitive TF2 my main class was demoman and while the sticky grenades are obviously super cheesy and wouldn't fit a game like Reflex I really liked playing with strong projectile weaponry which filled different niches and allowed you to be very creative in your playstyle.

As for the reflex rl, I'm happy with it overall. I always liked the strong, "slow" rocket design generally, so if there were to be changes that is the direction I would like it to go.

The reason this is, is because Quake has always been around having one weapon for every niche situation and that's it. Whereas Unreal Tournament experimented with weapon variation and alt-firing and got accused of redundancy.That's why nowadays we see games following the Quake formula of equal weapons instead of weapons that occasionally do the same things, but one is better than the other at doing it. Pretty much means that any Quake/Quakefork is going to be rocket-launcher/rail focused.

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2 minutes ago, Cyclegreen said:

 Pretty much means that any Quake/Quakefork is going to be rocket-launcher/rail focused.

Also LG. These three are the most versatile (range wise) and do the most damage consistently/easily.

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My biggest issue with the rocket launcher is that it's splash damage isn't enough. It should be a high risk-high reward weapon. I'd balance it by greatly increasing the splash damage done. This has two effects: Making it more dangerous in the hands of players who aren't that precise, and making it impossible to get into someones face. Which is something that we have other weapons for. Buff the shotguns damage and increase the weapon of the rail.

This creates an effect where the railgun is once again the rocket-counter, and the shotgun can take over for being the close ranged bully. I think right now it's too easy to get into someones face and clock them with a rocket launcher while taking little to no damage.

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1 hour ago, Joe said:

Copy cpm rockets

136 dps IC

1350ms reload for bolt

You've said rockets are too strong but cpma has stronger rockets?

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2 hours ago, fuglaa said:

You've said rockets are too strong but cpma has stronger rockets?

rockets being so strong isnt just because of the balance of the rocket itself.

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The netcode is sufficiently different between CPM and Reflex that I think a direct comparison re: projectiles is difficult. 

 

LoNeZiLLa and Pill_ like this

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1 hour ago, lolograde said:

The netcode is sufficiently different between CPM and Reflex that I think a direct comparison re: projectiles is difficult. 

 

Also square hitboxes make directs way easier

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