Callahan

Rockets, how do you feel about them?

Rockets..   56 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about them?

    • They are perfect right now. I would change nothing.
    • They are still too strong. (Please state why you think so)
    • They are too weak. (Please state why you think so)

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44 posts in this topic

Only problem with rockets I have is how easy it is to get ammo for them while having two spawns for it on almost every map. They're so easy to get and almost impossible to deny and control that they might as well be spawn weapons. I'm fine with them being strong and even OP as long as they're treated with that value as a resource, like MH and RA by comparison.

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On 2/13/2017 at 3:53 PM, ique said:

If I'm allowed to comment on general game design for a few sentences... I think it's a real shame that so many arena shooters or quake-likes don't play around with explosive weaponry. You always have just one rocket launcher and that's it. The grenade launcher is too impractical in combat to use reliably, but it has potential (and the reflex gl is one of the better ones, even if the rockets are always better). Having 2 or multiple weapons that use explosive damage and knockback would be a lot more interesting from a game balance and combo stand point. I don't know how finalised the reflex devs feel the current arsenal is, but maybe it can be some food for thought. When I played competitive TF2 my main class was demoman and while the sticky grenades are obviously super cheesy and wouldn't fit a game like Reflex I really liked playing with strong projectile weaponry which filled different niches and allowed you to be very creative in your playstyle.

As for the reflex rl, I'm happy with it overall. I always liked the strong, "slow" rocket design generally, so if there were to be changes that is the direction I would like it to go.

I can agree here; Unreal added a bit more depth in this area with the inclusion of the shock, flak, bio, translocator and even the ripper projectiles (which could have been nice if rebalanced after UT99).

I've always thought it'd be great to see a game with Quake-style physics for movement, rockets, and grenades but with the added projectile diversity of UT. Warsow fell a bit short in this department, adding UT dodge to CPMA movement with no weapon changes.

 

On 2/13/2017 at 7:15 AM, LoNeZiLLa said:

Atm the balance is perfect, but that's only because the IC reloads at 46ms.. if there were any changes made to the IC to make it stronger, then I would say that the rockets are took weak and would need a buff (speed buff of course =]).

I voted for too weak, since I think that there are a few people who think the IC is too weak atm.

Yeah, I think this point is key. Rockets may feel a bit weak ATM compared to Q3/QL/CPMA, but then so is hitscan (at least when it comes to IC and shotgun). These things go hand-in-hand so I wouldn't want to see a buff to IC without a buff to RL splash/knockback.

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On 2/13/2017 at 10:53 PM, ique said:

I think it's a real shame that so many arena shooters or quake-likes don't play around with explosive weaponry. You always have just one rocket launcher and that's it.

Xonotic has 6 out of 9 weapons that deal explosive (splash) damage.

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The rockets are at their best right now.

If you look at the RL from very early Reflex and compare all the changes and tweaks made up to this day, you will see that literally everything has been tried and tested. There are very very good reasons for why the RL works the way it does now, instead of the way it did before.

The ONLY thing I would change with the RL would be the maxammo, lower it to 20. But if that changes, you have to consider the other weapons' impact on the gameplay balance as well.

  • Since you will have less rockets, it will make it much harder to fight a player who constantly cycles the IC the entire game (it is already hard enough). This means that the IC's "value/importance" will go up even higher than it already is.
  • Since the IC has even more of an impact on the game, it becomes a must to control it. (even more than it already is). This will slow the game down, and make the game much more about avoiding the fights and just pacman'ing.
  • The IC essentially becomes as important as a major item, which is a MAJOR problem when it comes to balance.

And now that the gameplay is slowed, you have to think about how each playstyle has been impacted and whether or not there is an equal balance between the variety of ways to play the game.

 

TL;DR

RL = Perfect!

Maybe change RL maxammo to 20?

Decrease both air and ground kb on IC

Decrease both air and ground kb on Bolt.

Grybzt and Goulox like this

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i feel the rocket projectile hitbox should be a tad bigger and splash radius respectively.

also, i have impressions that splash damage is a bit inconsistent i.e. maximum rocket jump height.

On 3.4.2017 at 5:35 AM, LoNeZiLLa said:

Maybe change RL maxammo to 20?

agreed ;)

and maybe reduce picked up ammo on RL spawns

NicholasWalters likes this

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Rockets: projectile hitbox seems to be alright atm imo, but splash needs to be increased (horizontal+vertical)

Grenades: lower the pickup ammo to 5, instead place some ammo packs if needed (i don't ever feel like i need to manage my grenade ammo, always stacked). increase splash radius a bit more. decrease thrust (grenade can be launched so far it's almost a fully operational projectile...) hitbox seems fine after recent changes.

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It doesn't have enough splash damage and getting a direct hit isn't as easy to do when you can just shoot the ground near the player from the high ground which should inflict a little bit more damage.

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i voted "weak" but because i don't like the change in shooting height. i really liked the rockets of the early builds, even though the splash was smaller, they were easier to aim. 

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Glad to see the poll errr on the side I would agree with.  A tad too weak.  Maybe eliminate close proximity cut-off of 85 then redo numbers all the way down.

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On 4/24/2017 at 11:20 AM, Padawan said:

Rockets: projectile hitbox seems to be alright atm imo, but splash needs to be increased (horizontal+vertical)

Grenades: lower the pickup ammo to 5, instead place some ammo packs if needed (i don't ever feel like i need to manage my grenade ammo, always stacked). increase splash radius a bit more. decrease thrust (grenade can be launched so far it's almost a fully operational projectile...) hitbox seems fine after recent changes.

Yeah, I think splash size needs a little buff too.

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The only mechanic about the rockets that confuse me are how the projectile "spawns" both at eye level and  in front of your character model. They just feel weird to me coming from rockets in multiple other FPS games such as quake 3, team fortress 2, etc. Apart from that I just wish it had a tiny bit more knockback/physical force!

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I think damage is good.

However I think the knockback on it (and on every weapons) is a little too weak compared to what you can do and the speed you can gain with the current movement set.

Small knockback was okay in Quake Live because you couldn't do much with the movement set, considering CPMA stuff, we should have crowdcontrol closer to Quakeworld.

hArD_a$$_nIqQa and HaraldQuake like this

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8 hours ago, Zvarri said:

I think damage is good.

However I think the knockback on it (and on every weapons) is a little too weak compared to what you can do and the speed you can gain with the current movement set.

Small knockback was okay in Quake Live because you couldn't do much with the movement set, considering CPMA stuff, we should have crowdcontrol closer to Quakeworld.

agreed

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21 hours ago, Zvarri said:

I think damage is good.

However I think the knockback on it (and on every weapons) is a little too weak compared to what you can do and the speed you can gain with the current movement set.

Small knockback was okay in Quake Live because you couldn't do much with the movement set, considering CPMA stuff, we should have crowdcontrol closer to Quakeworld.

But with more kb powerweapons will be even more effective than the burstgun (which doesn't rely on kb) so I think burstgun will need a damage buff. Plasma should also be higher dmg per shot and lower rate of fire. For rockets I think it would be cool to increase kb, damageradius and max splashdamage cap at 85... Then to balance it out, reduce it's rate of fire to something between shotgun and br reloadspeed. Stakegun could have about the same rate of fire like current rl and could be the weapon for high dmg direct hits. Rl would be better for blocking of chokepoints on range, knocking back enemies and it would be worse in close combat but a bit better on mid range.

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