Yasashii

Proving Grounds

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Hey guys,

With 1.1 we are adding a new competitive playlist to Match Making - Proving Grounds.

At this stage, it will be for 1v1 maps only, this is mainly due to the fact of the current large backlog of potentially good 1v1 maps available. We will look to expand this to 2v2/CTF etc soon.

This will be a playlist featuring new and upcoming maps to test their potential to enter the official map pool for upcoming seasons. Full Match Making Rank and CP awards are available in the Proving Grounds - we want to encourage play, testing and feedback.

Each round of maps will run for a 1 month cycle. All picks + drops will be recorded with the results shown at the end of each cycle. Top maps from each cycle will be collected and voted on by the community before they take a place in the next seasons map pool.

Authors of selected maps that make it to the official map pool will be rewarded with special unique personalized customization options (will be able to discuss with devs).

For the initial cycle, we'll kick it off with a selection of maps based on community buzz to get this feature rolling immediately. For future cycles, we'll start threads and put the call out, do votes etc. to narrow it down and get you all involved more.

To access the Proving Grounds, simply go to find a Match Making game like you would normally, and tick "Proving Grounds". If selected, you will be matched against others that want to play in the Proving Grounds map pool.

 

In no particular order, these are the first cycle of maps:

Sanctum by Promeus - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=803273126

Immortal Share by KovaaK - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=608668643

Quickfire by Greed - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=684976774

The Pandemonium [thct1] by Tehace & Arkcoss - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=900335975

Calendar by Terifire & fht & def - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=620887104

xy7 by Xytaglyph - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=898760373

Fata Morgana by Terifire - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=888460764

Abandoned Shelter [clean] - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=775755349

            Note: We don't endorse clean versioning of levels, however in this case we're purely curious to see how gameplay and popularity goes.

 

Please use this thread to provide any feedback with the maps. Also feel free to discuss potential candidates for future proving grounds cycles.

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Nice to see effort for introducing new maps. One question: is there an incentive for players to play in Proving Grounds? It might be intimidating to play in new maps because of fear to lose mmr, so an incentive might be needed, like 50% more competitive points for playin Proving Grounds.

Grybzt, Menno and Greed like this

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3 hours ago, ZuLuuuuuu said:

Nice to see effort for introducing new maps. One question: is there an incentive for players to play in Proving Grounds? It might be intimidating to play in new maps because of fear to lose mmr, so an incentive might be needed, like 50% more competitive points for playin Proving Grounds.

If people fear to lose mmr, they really need to see a good psychologist. MMR enables you to play balanced matches, if you lose mmr because you play maps you don't know well, the only drawback that I see, is that you gonna play then a few unbalanced matches (in your favor), waiting for your rank to get back to its normal level. This is not a big deal.

There is no particular reason for wanting to maintain the highest possible rank. This thinking is irrational. If you improve and you get good, your mmr will go up, no need to care about that. Just play matches and hf.

Jaguar, Menno, Greed and 3 others like this

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Just now, Goulox said:

If people fear to lose mmr, they really need to see a good psychologist. MMR enables you to play balanced matches, if you lose mmr because you play maps you don't know well, the only drawback that I see, is that you gonna play then a few unbalanced matches (in your favor), waiting for your rank to get back to its normal level. This is not a big deal.

There is no particular reason for wanting to maintain the highest possible rank. This thinking is irrational. If you improve and you get good, your mmr will go up, no need to care about that. Just play matches and hf.

Should we ignore this because it is small deal, even if it is easily fixable?
 
When a new map is introduced for a short period of time the imbalance will be big between a guy who played the map 3-4 times and a guy who is playing it for the first time. So, I wouldn't want to go into a fight that I am 90% sure I will lose. Yes, I play the game for fun but it is more fun if there is reward AKA incentive to play. Or at least if there is no punishment for trying out experimental features.
 
Other thing is that if there is an incentive, more people will play in Proving Grounds => hence better quality of testing of new maps hence more fun games in the future for everyone.
 
If giving more competitive points is a bad idea, it might be something different like a badge which is shown in user profile if you played in 50 Proving Grounds games for the last 3 months, a badge that says something like "Community Contributor" or "Map Tester"...

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If you're constantly gonna keep trying to avoid getting your ass whooped based on some premonitions about potential skills of other players, you won't learn very fast or very much, nor will your feedback be very valuable. In my opinion the possibility of actually winning more games because of more and more people, who haven't played them before, trying these maps out is good enough. All in your mind.

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Loving that I finally get to play new(ish) maps again! I do wonder whether the new map queue should affect your mmr for the regular queue. If I were to list the pros and cons from my perspective:

pros:

  • People wanna climb and if the PG queue doesn't let their rating go up, they might choose to only play regular queue instead (we all got limited time after all).

cons:

  • People wanna climb and new maps are essentially a wild card, while you might beat someone with much better rating, you might get beaten by someone with much lower rating instead.
  • It messes with the integrity of the rankings, since you can 'feed' elo off a lower skilled player in PG queue while avoiding similarly skilled opponents in regular queue.

 

IMO the best way to do it would be to use the regular MMR in PG queue, but don't let the results affect your rating. You'd have to provide a strong incentive to play PG queue then though I think. Also, I think that perhaps the ranges could be bigger for the MM algorithm in PG queue to make up for lower player count, especially if the match results wouldn't affect your MMR.

Jaguar and Greed like this

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13 minutes ago, Pill_ said:

IMO the best way to do it would be to use the regular MMR in PG queue, but don't let the results affect your rating. You'd have to provide a strong incentive to play PG queue then though I think. Also, I think that perhaps the ranges could be bigger for the MM algorithm in PG queue to make up for lower player count, especially if the match results wouldn't affect your MMR.

I was thinking maybe a reduced impact on wins/losses to MMR in PG would be a good thing.  Like you gain 1/2 or 1/3 as much MMR for beating an opponent in the PG instead of normal, and you lose 1/2 to 1/3rd the normal amount too.

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I just hope enough people use the proving grounds queue to make it useful. I know there are a lot of players out there who hate learning new maps.

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6 hours ago, Pill_ said:

IMO the best way to do it would be to use the regular MMR in PG queue, but don't let the results affect your rating. You'd have to provide a strong incentive to play PG queue then though I think. Also, I think that perhaps the ranges could be bigger for the MM algorithm in PG queue to make up for lower player count, especially if the match results wouldn't affect your MMR.

the kinds of people who have fear of losing elo are the same kind of people who try to cheese wins on 2 ga maps so these unproven maps are perfect for them because they already embrace the cointoss :)

Joe likes this

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So, this thread was intended to have feedback regarding the maps in the current rotation of Proving Grounds.  I played a few rounds yesterday, and here are my ~2 line thoughts:

  • Sanctum - Only played once, but I felt lost when out of control.  I'm not sure what the best options available are, but it could be interesting.
  • Immortal Share - BEST MAP EVER.  I'm only slightly biased.  More seriously though, I know it's very divisive due to the perception of fights at mega becoming a bit janky, but there are strong punishes on people trying to use the teleporter there.  Plus the stake jumps are just fun.
  • Quickfire - Out of control play seems very strong on this map due to the two separate 2-way teleporters + easier punishes on Red Armor + very long sight lines for +back/+bolt.
  • The Pandemonium [thct1] - It looks beautiful with the new art pass, and plays decently well too.  My eyes were getting slightly distracted with the new visuals on first play.  I'd probably get used to it with a few more plays, or maybe messing with gamma...
  • Calendar - Plays pretty well now.  Seems like there are good choices out of control.  Might be one of my favorites in this rotation right now.
  • xy7 - Haven't played the latest version yet.
  • Fata Morgana - I struggled with out of control play, but the right answer might be to abuse spam through holes.  Not sure what this would look like at high levels of play.
  • Abandoned Shelter [clean] - Haven't had it come up in the queue yet.

 

Greed and Grybzt like this

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immortal share is terrible. I was stuck in a teleloop for the first 50 seconds; steak launcher doesn't work in comp, and gerneally confusing and poorly designed map.

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xv7 - Great map. Solid gameplay. Needs a bolt rifle, and there is no indication of where mega or red are on the map, making mega in particular hard to find. I got red spawn and didn't take it because it's so poorly indicated.

NicholasWalters likes this

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55 minutes ago, clemambi said:

I got red spawn and didn't take it because it's so poorly indicated.

I'm pretty sure if you got red spawn you would have picked it up :)

red spawn.PNG

Kyto likes this

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On 4/20/2017 at 11:55 PM, Luft said:

I'm pretty sure if you got red spawn you would have picked it up :)

red spawn.PNG

Speaking of that spawn, I'm not a fan of spawns directly on major items. If I get killed I shouldn't get rewarded. A good player will probably wait to kill the enemy until after he has picked up red, but it's about the principle IMO.

Kyto, F4ster and Xytaglyph like this

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1 hour ago, Pill_ said:

Speaking of that spawn, I'm not a fan of spawns directly on major items. If I get killed I shouldn't get rewarded. A good player will probably wait to kill the enemy until after he has picked up red, but it's about the principle IMO.

I absolutely agree, while alot of maps have really near item spawns, its not to the point where if they spawn there after they kill you they don't have a chance to stop you. Also, the spawn system is broken and players can spawn directly in front and point blank range of players (it rarely happens, but still) I would hate to be going for it and get slammed in the face by a melee as he steals it. <_<

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9 hours ago, Pill_ said:

Speaking of that spawn, I'm not a fan of spawns directly on major items. If I get killed I shouldn't get rewarded. A good player will probably wait to kill the enemy until after he has picked up red, but it's about the principle IMO.

i definitely agree with you can changed this after some testing and playing around with some ideas. This spawn as depicted here no longer exists in the final version.

Xy7 specific thread here: 

 

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