KovaaK

We need to talk about the state of the game.

140 posts in this topic

I really like @thelawenforcer's  ball push idea (perhaps the ball can be held along with your melee weapon), an idea like this or @KovaaK's where you are focused on one goal (just like in CS or in OW) it is something that everyone new and old can work together well and clearly on. I didn't know about UT's new mode FlagRun, and coincidentally I had a similar concept to it, and there could be a lessen to be learned from them which we could utilise. My idea was:

2 teams: attackers, defenders
1 Flag in defenders base.
Goal is to take flag and bring back to attackers base
Game of two halves
Have pickups available and even quads/pu's to time

I think it is important to have a mode that hints and utilises our pickups, so that a new player can learn and recognise the importance of cycling or timing and item, the Quad is a prime example of this, and in this new mode it should be Really loudly FLASHED in your face that it has a timer and it's time is coming!

Everyone of our ideas can easily be mocked up to some degree in Reflex's current state, possibly just by converting a few ctf maps at first, and this is what is important; us testing a mocked up version to see how far the mode can go before it's depth and layers dissapear. And to see how much a problem a weak/new player see's the mode. A weak player in classic CTF for example is a high liability leaking holes through the defensive layers, but a weak player in a flagrun-like mode is much less a liability, rather than the player being a problem for his team mates and making him feel bad, the player simply just becomes less useful and not a hinderance; therefore imo possibly keeping the player happier.

Also, I like how you (@thelawenforcer) put it: " the best model for Reflex would have been to go with the Severity model " I said this earlier, and I think it should be said again, this should happen for MM, I would suggest 1v1's 2v2's and at the forefront which ever new mode that we can all agree on as having potential.

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What this game lacks is the incentive to become good at it, even if you become Kyto or Ramagan, only about 100 people will care. So not only is there not any financial incentive, but reputational incentive is weak too and you can only feel so good at being in a position that only somewhat around 100 people aspires to be in as well. eSports are growing to the extend that there are schools made just for that and it's becoming a career choice for more people. So start thinking of Reflex as a platform that you can offer for them and treat it like you would any other product that rewards the trade both ways. Rather than discussing how to make your sweet home brewed ale taste better and getting disappointed by nobody noticing you selling it down at your basement - figure out better ways to compete in the industry, to get this product heard and distributed. Make it a sellable product worth investing in. Quit expecting success by imitating what other products are doing, because it's foolish to expect same results without equivalent amount of effort and time. This is of uppermost importance to understand, especially when the product is not doing anything revolutionary to begin with.

Even if you bring back item timers, even if you do everything in your power to make the game easier to understand, it's still the same game and there's still not going to be any incentive to get good at the game. Reflex at the moment is the esports equivalent of hazardous extreme sports, which only reaches the well informed exotic hobbyists and among them sparks ambition only in the people with a lot of free time and no care in the world. If this is what you want Reflex to be, then that is also fine. I'm not saying it should be something else, rather what I'm saying is that you're rewarded for what you produce, not what you deserve. Don't go expecting the opposite.

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There is incentive to get better. The feeling of seeing that I'm getting better is the incentive to keep playing this game for me. Even if nobody else cared, I do care about myself getting better and that's all that matters to me.

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I played some when this game was very early and loved it but it just didn't have the player numbers to keep me invested, nor the map selection. I'm super impressed with the state of the release version, I just obviously wish there were more people playing. It's not my first rodeo with dwindling community numbers, I come from the Tribes community and that has been a struggle since the twilight years of Tribes 2. It's another very demanding game that requires a huge time investment to even get competent and stay at a consistent level of competence and I still don't know what the answer is for that in retaining new players. Things like DOTA seem to do it but obviously there's a massive financial incentive for people to dream about with those types of games. I'll keep playing and I'll keep bugging my friends to play, seems like all I can do.

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Plenty of good stuff in here already, but here are my two cents, from the perspective of someone who's not talented at games and is too lazy to 'train' properly, but nevertheless got heavily into Warsow/Quake/Reflex, and became an enthusiastic mid-tier dueler. (It probably seems rather self-obsessed, but the reason for talking about myself so much is that mine is the only path to loving the game that I can talk about with any real understanding.)

- early on, what got me into Quake 3 was how fun it was to play badly, either on a small LAN with friends (and bots) or alone against bots. I didn't know strafejumping existed, paid no attention to armours, probably didn't even realise the powerups were predictably timed, but just had a blast walking around shooting. Obviously part of that was my young age and the relative novelty of any FPS game to me at the time, let alone one that I could play against my friends, but it also had a lot to do with the game itself. I'm not a game designer or a genius so I'm not sure exactly why Q3 grabbed me in that way, but there was something to it that didn't depend on any of the depth that I discovered later on. One thing that I know was important, and which I've mentioned before, was the structured single-player component. It was very simple, but it gave me some specific challenges to take on and a way to measure my progress from complete noob to slightly less of a noob.

- at some point I very briefly tried CPM, but found it confusing and didn't give it a serious go.

- much later I discovered Warsow, which is where I really got into the meat of the Quake experience. (But I think I was predisposed to give it a go, and to enjoy it, because of my positive feelings about Q3.) The first thing that grabbed me was the movement: I could see what was possible from watching other players in-game and on Youtube, and got a little taste of it myself thanks to Warsow's newb-friendly (but still incredibly hard to master) movement system. For a while I only really played DA (the A1v1 equivalent), and just had a great time rocketjumping off walls and gradually learning to strafejump. Duel wasn't fun for quite a while, and if it were the only active mode I think I probably would have given up. But eventually, having played the occasional duel in between games of DA and CA, I got a feel for the subtleties and realised how enjoyable the tactical struggle could be when combined with the movement & shooting I already loved.

From there I went to QL, CPM and Reflex, but discovering that I enjoyed Warsow duel was the point at which I really got hooked. Having an active community was important, but it didn't need to be huge -- just a few friendly people to help me get started, one or two regular duel partners at around my level, and some better players to look up to and measure my progress against.

I'm not sure exactly what the lesson is from my experience -- perhaps something about the elements that attracted me as a newbie being quite different from, but not incompatible with, those that kept me interested -- but I thought this might at least provide a counter-example to the suggestion that games like Reflex aren't 'fun' and are only really suited to people who are motivated to put in hours of practice and take the game quite seriously. Of course I have some competitive spirit, but I've only really learned by playing, and played because I enjoyed it. I never got very good, but good enough to appreciate some of the subtleties of the game and to enjoy competing against some decent players. (And, perhaps most importantly in the context of this thread, to play a lot and become reasonably active within the community.)

 

edit: one thing that I forgot to mention is that immediately before discovering Warsow, I'd been pretty heavily into TF2, but eventually got fed up with some of the bullshit surrounding it (this was around the time it transitioned from being a game people played because it was intrinsically fun to a glorified skinner box), as well as the feeling that the gameplay itself was fairly restrictive. Two of the great things about Warsow (and other Quakelikes) was their purity (no unlocks -- which still pretty much holds for Reflex since they're all purely cosmetic -- or other shortcuts to addiction, no critical hits, no attempt to hide skill disparities, and so on) & the freedom (of movement, of play style, to exploit their nuances rather than having everything locked down with speed caps and invisible walls, etc.) that they allowed.

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10 hours ago, JeremyG said:

There is incentive to get better. The feeling of seeing that I'm getting better is the incentive to keep playing this game for me. Even if nobody else cared, I do care about myself getting better and that's all that matters to me.

Right, we've already established that Reflex is appealing to a small group of freaks. Now how about the broader audience?

Look at the stats in OP, why are there so few people playing despite all the user friendly features currently in Reflex? Maybe that's just the extend of relying on free press, maybe that's the extend of paying a measly $550 for a government assisted campaigning program.

Maybe Reflex is not in alpha anymore and there are different things to take reference from the way modern games are cashing in millions.

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26 minutes ago, Smilecythe said:

Right, we've already established that Reflex is appealing to a small group of freaks. Now how about the broader audience?

Look at the stats in OP, why are there so few people playing despite all the user friendly features currently in Reflex? Maybe that's just the extend of relying on free press, maybe that's the extend of paying a measly $550 for a government assisted campaigning program.

Maybe Reflex is not in alpha anymore and there are different things to take reference from the way modern games are cashing in millions.

What kind of bollocks reasoning is this? Did it cross your mind cashing in on millions requires shaking the game up and moving it away from what makes it worth playing for those who do enjoy it? If one's so big on esports, they can just go play other titles that focus solely on cashing in. No user-friendly feature will make it a blockbuster and expecting a three (four?) man team to kickstart a business of the scale you seem to be dreaming of is just unrealistic.

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23 minutes ago, yakcyll~ said:

What kind of bollocks reasoning is this? Did it cross your mind cashing in on millions requires shaking the game up and moving it away from what makes it worth playing for those who do enjoy it? 

Not 100% ....and even if: uhm.... hasn't that been promised ages ago? 

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We really need some new things to make this game stand out and be attractive for new players:

- new items like stakegun, MG, hook

- a tidy MM system which has playlists and gives a clear view on how many players actually queue for a mode, maybe replace lobby servers with chatrooms so you can arrange matches more easily

- a new objective based gamemode which encourages teamplay but doesn't rely on itemtiming too much

- Quake 3 style singleplayer

- Quake 1 style singleplayer

- Coop?

- some statements from the devs what they think they can do to make the game more attractive for new players and if they even have plans to do it

 

 

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Improve the gameplay to get current afps players to play (rockets, maps, shit for teammodes like dropweapon/powerups/different spawntimes)
Improve social features to get newer players to stick around (voice chat, teammodes, ladder on frontpage, drop in mm for casual modes, better maps for casual modes)
 

The vast majority of people don't care about getting better so that isn't an incentive to play for anything but <1% of people.

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5 hours ago, yakcyll~ said:

No user-friendly feature will make it a blockbuster and expecting a three (four?) man team to kickstart a business of the scale you seem to be dreaming of is just unrealistic.

You missed my earlier post. If you're going to take inspiration from the newest features in modern games in order to improve reception, then you should also look at why exactly those games are successful commercially. Hint: It's not because of free press or handout government support lol. Rather than wasting time tweaking rocket knockback, they should move to innovate in marketing. The game is not in alpha anymore, adding new things to it forever will get you nowhere.

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I think playerbase should be focused more in fewer game modes. Currently there is way to many options in MM while viable is only duel and maybe FFA.

I think best solution would be to give 3 options for players in MM:

  • Duel
  • Some kind of team mode
  • Weekly rotating "fun" game mode, like 1 week - instagib, 2 week - ffa, 3 week - vampiric ffa and etc.

Current playerbase can't populate all available gamemode and in the end no gamemode is populated except duel. Game needs to give less options in MM, so atleast those could be viable.

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Something I haven't seen people mention is how there is no downtime to chill out during a reflex. If we look at counterstrike for example, after you die you have to wait for the round to end. This gives you some downtime to calm down and get ready for the next round. In reflex you die, and then you respawn a second or two later and have to fend for yourself. There's no time to cool down. It's one of the big factors that make these games so brutal imo, not only are you getting beaten bad, you spawn every few seconds and then die every few seconds.

 

I think lologrades idea is excellent. How many games have grown huge playerbases off of tangentially related games? Like arma and dayz etc.

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Zombies.  Reflex needs Zombies.  Some sort of score attack mode that has bots spawning at any map's respawn points an increasing number until the user is over ran.  The Zombies would walk directly towards the user at 200ish ups and have a 33 damage melee attack. All the items and armor would still be on the map.  Eventually some of the Zombie horde start spawning with weapons or get faster/stronger.

Now that I think of it, zombies didn't save Ratz Instagib :(  But it was still a great way to learn the mechanics of the game in a low stress environment.

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I can only speak for myself but I'm sure a lot of casuals feel the same. I don't play all that much because I don't see the reason in getting good at a game that hardly anyone plays.  I can sit around in a waiting room for an hour plus sometimes just waiting for an FFA game.  With Quake Champions on the rise and it will surely have a big player base I just don't see the point in sticking around.  

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On 4/7/2017 at 5:25 PM, KovaaK said:

Reflex was just released last month and enjoyed a small population boom that took the concurrent users and multiplied it by 2-3. It was great until something like 90% of the newer players stopped playing. So we must ask ourselves why the population tanked back to pre-release levels already.

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Was it the community? No, I highly doubt that. The majority of us have been very welcoming and took time to show newer players what the game has to offer. Parkourstation and reflextrain saw a lot of play time on public servers. Even in duels, veterans stopped and explained why they were surviving through multiple direct rockets to the face, toned down their game, and let newcomers grab some armors. Bringing people to the official discord has gone pretty well too. I'd love it if this was a success story and I was only here to report these facts... 

So why didn't people stick with the game? To use a metaphor, I think it's that new players see a pit of depth for how good you could possibly be at reflex, but there are no lights pointed down there. There is nothing that illuminates why prime overlords can convincingly beat overlords, who can stomp on diamonds, who can dominate platinums, who can destroy... All the way down to bronze. As we all know, combat skills don't define everything in this game, but that is the only thing that is outwardly obvious before a new player buys the game. And even after they have played for a week, they are aware movement plays a big part, but the depths of strategy are still a murky black pit that makes no sense to them.

Compared to Overwatch, it's really obvious that depth in the game (outside of combat skills) comes from finding the right times to use your abilities and coordinating with teammates. You don't go into the game without knowing what you eventually need to improve upon. In Reflex, so many people bought the game and quit before they even knew how to improve.

There is an old video that described the ways in which Mega Man and Mega Man X were amazing games. The tl;dw: is that the games avoided explicitly telling people what to do because the mechanics of the game were revealed naturally while forcing the player to recognize what was going on, and mechanics that didn't work well in earlier games were removed in later games. This video brings home a really good point to me: my Reflex tutorials shouldn't need to exist. At least 90% of what I say in my tutorials should be forced on the player or made much more transparent.  New players shouldn't be forced to listen to me talk - the game should make the important aspects completely obvious through the player exploring the game.

This is why I thought item timers were a step in the right direction - it enhances mechanic transparency. As we observed, the more hardcore players fought against it because it diminished known strategic depth. It wasn't the ideal solution, and I'm willing to admit that. But it's still painfully clear that something needs to change with the fundamental gameplay of Reflex, and it won't be easy. I have two proposed changes we could try out, and I'm curious if anyone can poke holes in them. I'm also interested in other ideas people might have. 

Proposed change 1: bring back item timers in competitive modes, but make them unreliable. A mechanic could be introduced where if you shoot at an item that is not yet respawned, it adds or subtracts time from the respawning item (perhaps to a max of 5 seconds). Item timer widgets could represent what the unmodified time would be, and players could throw off timing by hand. Maybe you could tweak this idea and make it so the last person/team to collect the armor adds time to respawn by shooting it, and others subtract time by shooting it (or vice versa). 

To accommodate new players, you'd want to clearly show that respawn time is being changed by their actions with "-1 second" popping out of the item colored according to the action, and a default UI widget like apheleon's timer timeline with visual uncertainty (instead of discrete red armor on the time line, a red armor on a bar that extends to the possible ranges) would go a long way to help.

Or... 

Proposed change 2: all armors respawn at :00 and :30 on the clock. Other items keep their existing respawn properties. An additional benefit to this drastic change is that it removes the full lock armor cycle state of control, which means small skill differences will be less likely to result in huge score differences.

With armor cycling removed, positioning yourself between multiple armors and timing your attacks appropriately become a stronger part of the game's higher end strategy. A simple but prominent UI widget showing time until all armors respawn would go a long way to teach new players what they need to focus on.

I know #2 is harder to get buy-in from older players, but I want you guys to think seriously on it. We need to community to grow. I think #1 might not take it far enough. Perhaps #1 along with other changes to help make the game's important mechanics more transparent world be ideal, but I'd really like to try out things that make the game more approachable.

I also have a list of changes I'd recommend to the game's tutorial system, but that is less important than gameplay changes at this point.

change #2 sounds cool

also, to everyone mentioning new modes: ask the devs for the ability to create your own modes instead. the game's lua api is incredibly intuitive and it is a travesty that we can't make our own modes with it. my understanding is that this is because the devs want a singular, unified experience for all players but that hasn't stopped, for instance, valve from adding custom map support to dota 2 (although they have not maintained it well at all). throw out the pipe dream of reflex being the next big e-sport and give some control to the community to create things and attract new players through them

oh and another thing, could you guys set self-damage with armor to be 50% no matter what armor you have? having 75% self-damage reduction when you have red, for example, is outrageous and removes so much risk from hitting yourself to take a lower-tier armor from your opponent. seriously, the way self-damage is implemented makes people play like fucking robots

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11 hours ago, Chongus said:

Something I haven't seen people mention is how there is no downtime to chill out during a reflex. If we look at counterstrike for example, after you die you have to wait for the round to end. This gives you some downtime to calm down and get ready for the next round. In reflex you die, and then you respawn a second or two later and have to fend for yourself. There's no time to cool down. It's one of the big factors that make these games so brutal imo, not only are you getting beaten bad, you spawn every few seconds and then die every few seconds.

I'm an avid CS player but pretty new to Reflex and AFPS in general, and @Chongus hit the nail on the head.  The pacing for Reflex is pretty much 100%, 100% of the time.  That's tiring, especially for today's audience which enjoys games that have a fair bit of downtime in their gameplay.  Popular titles like CSGO, DOTA 2, PUBG, and Overwatch not only have great pacing (the slower planning/setup focused gameplay contrasted with the exciting attempt at executing said plan), they also have a limit to how badly you can lose.

What's the worst that could happen in CS?  (For those of you who are unfamiliar with Counter-Strike scoring, the game is played best of 30 rounds, what is essentially first to 16 round wins.)  Say you get picked off immediately in a round, and perhaps every following round, leading your team to an 0-16 loss.  I've been there, and it sucks because you lost big time, but that's as bad as it's ever gonna get.  I could play by myself against a pro team, 1v5, get absolutely crushed, and still only lose 0-16.

What's the worst that could happen in Reflex?  There's no cap.  I played a competitive 2v2 match, and after about 10 minutes into it, my partner and I were down by over 100 points.  Not an exaggeration, I'm pretty sure the score line was like 9-111.  We looked at the match timer and still had 5 more minutes to go.  You want to talk about a crushing defeat?  Try getting your teeth kicked in for 15 minutes straight with no respite.  My buddy that queued doubles with me hasn't launched Reflex since.

How to fix?  Maybe Reflex could introduce a score limit and/or a skunk rule.  Get up +10 or so and the game's over.  I'm sure someone will be able to recall a great comeback from a huge deficit, and that's cool and all, but I think for the majority of new players it ain't happening.

As for adding a new gamemode, I like @bej's idea of single flag CTF.  Also devs, if you read this, please let us mix the Arena Mutator with CTF.  Not really sure why the Arena mutator despawns flags, but round based CTF with player elimination would be fun.  Especially instagib.

 

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10 hours ago, ImRandyBaby said:

Zombies.  Reflex needs Zombies.  Some sort of score attack mode that has bots spawning at any map's respawn points an increasing number until the user is over ran.  The Zombies would walk directly towards the user at 200ish ups and have a 33 damage melee attack. All the items and armor would still be on the map.  Eventually some of the Zombie horde start spawning with weapons or get faster/stronger.

Now that I think of it, zombies didn't save Ratz Instagib :(  But it was still a great way to learn the mechanics of the game in a low stress environment.

This might be fun. It is kind of like the Halloween special game mode of Overwatch.

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11 hours ago, salad said:

I'm an avid CS player but pretty new to Reflex and AFPS in general, and @Chongus hit the nail on the head.  The pacing for Reflex is pretty much 100%, 100% of the time.  That's tiring, especially for today's audience which enjoys games that have a fair bit of downtime in their gameplay.  Popular titles like CSGO, DOTA 2, PUBG, and Overwatch not only have great pacing (the slower planning/setup focused gameplay contrasted with the exciting attempt at executing said plan), they also have a limit to how badly you can lose.

What's the worst that could happen in CS?  (For those of you who are unfamiliar with Counter-Strike scoring, the game is played best of 30 rounds, what is essentially first to 16 round wins.)  Say you get picked off immediately in a round, and perhaps every following round, leading your team to an 0-16 loss.  I've been there, and it sucks because you lost big time, but that's as bad as it's ever gonna get.  I could play by myself against a pro team, 1v5, get absolutely crushed, and still only lose 0-16.

What's the worst that could happen in Reflex?  There's no cap.  I played a competitive 2v2 match, and after about 10 minutes into it, my partner and I were down by over 100 points.  Not an exaggeration, I'm pretty sure the score line was like 9-111.  We looked at the match timer and still had 5 more minutes to go.  You want to talk about a crushing defeat?  Try getting your teeth kicked in for 15 minutes straight with no respite.  My buddy that queued doubles with me hasn't launched Reflex since.

How to fix?  Maybe Reflex could introduce a score limit and/or a skunk rule.  Get up +10 or so and the game's over.  I'm sure someone will be able to recall a great comeback from a huge deficit, and that's cool and all, but I think for the majority of new players it ain't happening.

As for adding a new gamemode, I like @bej's idea of single flag CTF.  Also devs, if you read this, please let us mix the Arena Mutator with CTF.  Not really sure why the Arena mutator despawns flags, but round based CTF with player elimination would be fun.  Especially instagib.

 

You have the option to forfeit for a reason.

Edit: Instagib CTF could be a cool (casual?) mode for matchmaking, because it's easy to understand, doesn't rely on itemtiming, is easy (everybody can kill with 1 shot) and it's team based. Or we could make it class based: Soldier with RL and Shotgun, Sniper with BR and shotgun, Demoman with GL, PG and shotgun, Assault with IC and Shotgun.

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I think it would be good to deny ranked play to newcomers until they reach a certain level.  Similar to how League of Legends does not allow you to play ranked until you are level 30.  It takes ~ 100+ hours to get to 30 in LoL

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On a subject different than newbies, Reflex needs more NTF, Instafreezetag, dropitem/dropflag/droppickup, controlling weapon/item spawn times and server-side control of widgets. And an official Amphi remake, thanks.

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25 minutes ago, yakcyll~ said:

On a subject different than newbies, Reflex needs more NTF, Instafreezetag, dropitem/dropflag/droppickup, controlling weapon/item spawn times and server-side control of widgets. And an official Amphi remake, thanks.

20 hours ago, hArD_a$$_nIqQa said:

also, to everyone mentioning new modes: ask the devs for the ability to create your own modes instead. the game's lua api is incredibly intuitive and it is a travesty that we can't make our own modes with it. my understanding is that this is because the devs want a singular, unified experience for all players but that hasn't stopped, for instance, valve from adding custom map support to dota 2 (although they have not maintained it well at all). throw out the pipe dream of reflex being the next big e-sport and give some control to the community to create things and attract new players through them

 

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while warsow style gametype scripting would ofcourse be really cool - it would probably be more work to implement a fully scriptable system than to make one new gametype. whats more, with the matchmaking/queuing system, you cant have all the gametypes that people make in it.

also, warsow had this system doesnt have too many gametypes to show for it, though there are some really cool ones with loads of features and content. the one gametype that eventually was adopted by the dev team and made official; bomb, which is essentially CS with loadouts, was pretty popular, with one or two full public servers and lots of pickups on irc etc. teams formed and cups were run etc. warsow is pretty much dead now though. eitherway, the point is that a good (and bomb was only really decent, nothing too special) 'casual' objective style gametype, that is well supported can be really successful (relatively speaking, it wont suddenly make reflex the top game on steam ofcourse) and get people playing teammodes again...

On 4/11/2017 at 6:57 PM, Chongus said:

Something I haven't seen people mention is how there is no downtime to chill out during a reflex. If we look at counterstrike for example, after you die you have to wait for the round to end. This gives you some downtime to calm down and get ready for the next round. In reflex you die, and then you respawn a second or two later and have to fend for yourself. There's no time to cool down. It's one of the big factors that make these games so brutal imo, not only are you getting beaten bad, you spawn every few seconds and then die every few seconds.

theres definitely an element of this - i think CS/CA style out for the rest of the round is too long though sometimes. 10s-15s of 'downtime' before you get back in the action properly would fit a fast paced game like reflex better. overwatch handles this decently by having a spawn cooldown and you having to walk back to the front - though OW is a bit slow movement wise so it can sometimes take too long sometimes.

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@bej

Single Flag CTF, could use existing symmetrical CTF maps, no need to make new ones specifically for this mode, but only one team's flag spawns per round.

Teams would be assigned offense or defense, offense tries to enter the enemy base, take the flag and return it to their own.  Basically CS's hostage rescue mode instead of UT's new flag run mode.  Teams could switch roles after each round or have multiple rounds per half, doesn't really matter imo. 2 minute rounds? 1:30?  Round time would need to be established.

Would have a clear objective for new players, but still at least a little depth in deciding if you want to pool all of your defenders at base to protect the flag with numbers or send off an aggressive defender to flank/ambush elsewhere in the map. 

It would play like Clan Arena without the bullshit spawns and with an added focal point for the action.  Don't sit in a corner and wait out the round timer, get to the flag idiot!

Also instagib.

 

Actually, because CS has such a fast time-to-kill, if you played this "flag rescue" with instagib, it'd basically be CS but with better movement and no weapon RNG.  :thinking: 

bej likes this

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3 hours ago, thelawenforcer said:

while warsow style gametype scripting would ofcourse be really cool - it would probably be more work to implement a fully scriptable system than to make one new gametype. whats more, with the matchmaking/queuing system, you cant have all the gametypes that people make in it.

i don't know how gametypes are represented/handled in the game's code but i can't imagine it would require a full rewrite to implement some lua hooks for gametype stuff. furthermore, giving gametype scripting abilities to players is not incompatible with matchmaking. for instance, the devs could have a matchmaking playlist that plays a set of hand-picked popular/good custom gametypes that are cycled out every month or something

another thing to keep in mind is that not everyone wants to play matchmaking. i dont like how duel plays in this game and i dont give a shit about it

HaraldQuake likes this

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