KovaaK

We need to talk about the state of the game.

91 posts in this topic

Option 2 sounds like it'd be a fun mode just in its own right. As someone who likes the focus to be on the shooting and less about control, I'd probably prefer that mode over duel. With that said, I definitely don't think it should replace duel as we have it now. Too many people know and love the current version of duel and I honestly don't think we should be doing anything that would get rid of it. Having option 2 as its own mode might be cool, though. 

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For the Noobs:

-More training levels especially for movement (like parkour station 1st floor style) 

-Better bots that are easy to set up on any map/game mode (co-op too)

-Lock competitive mode until hard training levels are completed

For the Casuals: 

-Drop in/out quick play servers

-Rematch button and game mode votes available for MM

-More than 3 player FFA etc.

-New game modes especially slower paced ones like freezetag or 1 life per round stuff

For the Pros:

-Make "Approved" widgets only for competitive mode

-Tier cosmetics/sprays for highest rank reached per season

-Rotate maps per season

 

The official release was definitely rushed, but this game is too good for us to let die when all we need to do is make more approachable and advertise it better

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16 hours ago, hArD_a$$_nIqQa said:

i don't know how gametypes are represented/handled in the game's code but i can't imagine it would require a full rewrite to implement some lua hooks for gametype stuff. furthermore, giving gametype scripting abilities to players is not incompatible with matchmaking. for instance, the devs could have a matchmaking playlist that plays a set of hand-picked popular/good custom gametypes that are cycled out every month or something

another thing to keep in mind is that not everyone wants to play matchmaking. i dont like how duel plays in this game and i dont give a shit about it

well, it wouldn't necessarily involve a full rewrite, but it would involve another layer of code on top of the existing stuff - you'd have to add the stuff so that the game can process the scripts etc. there would also be bugs etc. not to say its not doable etc, but it would take a while to complete and have it working bug free etc. not to mention the documentation needed to allow content creators to start working on modes etc.

matchmaking is more about having a queuing system so that games can seamlessly organised and played etc. what would be great would be a sort of mix like you suggest - perhaps an 'official' teammode that is always included in matchmaking, and then a rotating slot for custom gametypes that changes every few weeks or something. that way it exposes new gametypes, allows them to be played and enjoyed etc, without cluttering the queuing system with too many options.

ideally we'd get both, a great official teammode, and the ability to make our own with some kind of support from the dev team exposure wise etc. you never know, some genius idea might get cooked up and transform the FPS genre, like other mods have before!

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5 hours ago, thelawenforcer said:

ideally we'd get both, a great official teammode, and the ability to make our own with some kind of support from the dev team exposure wise etc. you never know, some genius idea might get cooked up and transform the FPS genre, like other mods have before!

this!!! without sufficient modding abilities counter-strike, rocket arena, cpm, dota, etc wouldn't exist

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Hi, I'm a casual. Been playing Overwatch since Closed Beta back in like November 2015. Recently got into Quake (beat 1's campaign, didn't touch 2 too much yet, 3 and team arena's single player, played a lot of bots on Quake Live, some players, then got into the Quake Champions beta-- won't break NDA but, well, I decided to check out this "Reflex" I'd heard about). I'll probably never really master the various movement stuff, but I can effectively use some of it, and that's good enough for me, slowly trying to incorporate the other stuff over time. It's fun, and your community is so great, it's the least intimidating thing I've ever done. Challenging, but not scary at all to play. That's good. You guys are so cool, I'm blown away over here.

What arena FPS does well in my opinion is, well, a lot of things, but to me just the satisfaction of the core experience of fragging feels great in a good arena FPS. Overwatch, for many complex reasons, sometimes starts to feel like not even playing an FPS after a long period of time. Burnout set in for me after a long time, and I believe it will come for other players as well giving Reflex a solid shot at grabbing the people who miss not being funneled into each other with free kill buttons. I love Overwatch, but I missed playing an FPS game. I still play Overwatch though-- I have no intention of "quitting". What Reflex does well is its respect for the core, its respect for minimalism, the high customization that belongs in a proper PC FPS game, and really bringing that good core experience to the modern age with a gorgeous aesthetic that miraculously doesn't compromise the readability-- even for noobs like me who probably need as much as we can get.

I don't personally want to see Reflex dumbed down at all. I think people need to properly "discover" it, and discover what's good about it. I don't want to say it "needs advertising" because I don't know how much it might already have, but when I gave it to my friends they said "How did you find this gem?". They're not big into arena FPS-- at least they weren't until Reflex. Those tutorial videos are amazing and I love them dearly-- but it is probably true that in-game thorough tutorials with really good feedback and noob friendly UI to teach all the essential movement stuff would go a long way.

But truthfully, I don't know the core appeal needs to be to get casuals like me to jump in and learn all the movement techniques or the meta stuff. I'll tell you what I personally want-- I would love to have enough players to just jump in and, I'll say it, just enjoy the core act of kinda mindlessly fragging against people of my own potato skill level. That's why I'm here. Jump in and frag. Don't want fancy gimmicks. Don't know if I'll ever really reliably be able to execute every type of jump. Don't really even care if I ever properly learn pickup timers and control (even though I probably will at some point down the line). Shameful, I know. I'm simple, I've accepted that. Right now I fight players way better than me, and I don't mind because hey, if I can frag these old gods every now and then-- that's enough for me, don't mind the challenge, don't mind losing, and I can always fight the bots because they can challenge me without stomping me. I like that I'm here, I'm playing an FPS, I don't have to play support because nobody else will, and I don't have to deal with a team tilting at each other/never grouping up. The simplicity and the purity is the entire appeal to me-- which of course helps explain why I love Reflex specifically-- because it loves respecting the core.

Free to play weekend-- or just free to play doesn't sound half bad to me I guess? (I know I'd buy the cosmetics to support. Dare you to make one head look like a lootbox) But I definitely don't have the knowledge to say whether or not that would help or kill the game. Probably a lot of higher level understanding goes into a choice like that. I know I wouldn't be mad if I paid to buy all these copies and it went free to play tomorrow.

I'm not gonna say that I represent all casuals, not gonna say that I'm "objectively correct" in how I look at this, in fact, I don't even have "suggestions" for how to make Reflex get players and keep players. You could easily look at this post and tear apart my "points", I'm sure of that, because I'm not really even trying to make any points. I just wanted to provide my own perspective as some (hopefully) brutally honest insight into one casual mind.

Thanks for reading! And feel free to go easy on me in-game-- won't be needing my pride here!

give me a cowboy hat cosmetic i miss being a mccree main before we all learned what a teamcomp was

lolograde, salad, Owl and 2 others like this

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What about working towards opening up the server code? A few years ago I used to play on CS surf servers. It's an extremely big community that has basically turned CS into a completely different game (at least in terms of gameplay, server infrastructure, map pool and there's a whole structure to it (A tier system, rankings, etc.)). If server administrators had minimal control over physics (through lua scripting) similar communities could form in Reflex. One way to implement this would be to move certain movement features into mutators. For example: Server administrators get to enable a movement speed cap to get CS KZ players involved, etc.

 

Those are just examples. The reason I bring them up is because those communities (KZ and Surf) are communities that have organically grown without any intervention from the devs. On top of that the map editor makes reflex the perfect game for those communities. Offering people more control over the physics coupled with an ad campaign targeted at specific communities could lead to way more exposure for reflex which will help with basically everything else (Lack of fair duels, lack of people playing matchmaking, etc.).

Obviously one would have to properly implement it, instead of just opening up the whole physics engine. That would just lead to confusion for new players because every server has different physics, etc. Maybe a good start would be to have a beta version of reflex that allows changing physics (completely separate from the core game) so people can write modifications, test them, etc. and then have a pipeline to introduce these modifications as official parts of the game. There's not even a need for the devs to let server admins run their own code. As long as there's a way for server admins to write code, test it and then submit it to the devs (ultimately resulting in the code being introduced to the core game) I think it could work.

I can see how splitting the community could be a bad consequence of implementing my proposal but I don't see how splitting the community (as it is right now) would be worse for new players. Expanding the number of players would far outweight the downsides.

 

Anyway, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

lumpp and hArD_a$$_nIqQa like this

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Maybe have a variety matchmaking game mode that could cycle between different team game types? It's hard to find matches when you can queue up for so many game types and the only one that gets you in a game consistently is duel. It sucks no one plays CA since that's what a lot of casual players in QL play.

Also it seems like a lot of people stopped using MM'ing in NA so now you have to queue up in public servers and have to wait 10-30 min, for a 10 min game, unable to play on other servers/practice, assuming you lose to better players. Sure this is how OG players got good but it's not appealing for new players and sitting in queue when you don't have much time to game is :(. MM'ing was great when I was starting out since I could go mess around in other servers or work on movement while waiting.

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12 hours ago, AwesomeAndy said:

The lack of dev response is kind of telling. Do they still give a fk?

The heck is this question? Is this Quake Live? I think the patch notes are kind of telling too.

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4 hours ago, HaraldQuake said:

Bump. Please devs, give us a sign what to expect. What are the plans to improve Teammode population in MM? What are you working on?

You should @ them, like so: @shooter @Electro @Yasashii

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On 2017-5-19 at 8:23 AM, HaraldQuake said:

Bump. Please devs, give us a sign what to expect. What are the plans to improve Teammode population in MM? What are you working on?

Random question, but did you finish porting Stalkyard to Reflex? Might buy the game if you have :)

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I heard of Reflex having played the QC beta the past few weeks and searching for a good FPS to play every few months, having played HL/AG for more hours than I care to remember from 1999-2003ish, which was a very difficult game to 'get very good at' and had a big problem in keeping new players. I guess because I was young and had an IRL mate who played it too I stuck with it, these days I would not have the time to devote to it. I mean seriously, when you reach 30+, who does? :)

From what I can tell, QL has had similar problems attracting new players albeit on a smaller scale and QC will have the exact same issue moving forwards I expect - I would bet most who end up playing it regularly will have moved from QL (assuming the game gets the thumbs up from that crowd). I do not understand it at all personally, OverWatch looks truly terrible and I could never get on board with CoD even though all my mates played it on consoles and online against each other (my mates are far from geeky types). 

Is there a good answer to get people playing any AFPS? I have held off buying Reflex as it is clear not many play it, even though I can tell from the videos I would enjoy it. I will probably go ahead in the next couple of days so I can play against bots, bunnyhop around a few maps and the like and play a few hours at least - but what then?  

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Speaking of game modes, these might already have been mentioned but - two of the game modes in HL/AG that people would always play even if they were not particularly active were called 'Arena' and 'Arcade', Arena would basically involve two players spawning with full stack and all weapons and competing 1v1 to the death; winner stays on and you take it in turns in a queue system. This would give you the break between rounds, so you get some social interaction as well as a game mode that is easier to get decent at - it is just pure combat. I saw someone mention earlier that new players concentrate on getting better at combat, but not better at the game - well at least in this mode that would be more use. How you would then get these guys playing duels/TDM I have no idea. 

Arcade was similar but basically FFA with all weapons/full stack on spawning, which was good for the casual player but I found rather dull.

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I will buy the game in the next couple of days as I really like the look of it, just hope I can find some decent FFA servers to begin with :-)

 

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4 hours ago, TimmyMagic said:

Speaking of game modes, these might already have been mentioned but - two of the game modes in HL/AG that people would always play even if they were not particularly active were called 'Arena' and 'Arcade', Arena would basically involve two players spawning with full stack and all weapons and competing 1v1 to the death; winner stays on and you take it in turns in a queue system. This would give you the break between rounds, so you get some social interaction as well as a game mode that is easier to get decent at - it is just pure combat. I saw someone mention earlier that new players concentrate on getting better at combat, but not better at the game - well at least in this mode that would be more use. How you would then get these guys playing duels/TDM I have no idea. 

Arcade was similar but basically FFA with all weapons/full stack on spawning, which was good for the casual player but I found rather dull.

---

 

 

Arena mutators and more are already in the game :) 

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On 05/23/2017 at 1:33 AM, TimmyMagic said:

Random question, but did you finish porting Stalkyard to Reflex? Might buy the game if you have :)

It's playable but it's not done. I stopped working on it. I'd like to finish it but I guess I don't have enough time and knowledge about map editing (need to know how to scale the whole map and add art and nice looking lighting in a performant way)

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On 2017-5-23 at 5:40 AM, Owl said:

Arena mutators and more are already in the game :) 

Yes, it was daft of me to put forward game modes that were almost certainly already in the game :-)

Having played the game I have to say I really enjoy it and am looking forward to tackling the movement challenges having seen the KovaaK videos. In HLDM/AG I only ever really used bunny-hopping/wall strafing, and that is all I really needed to play for the top clans - there was also little else available. It is quite amazing to look back and wonder how we all managed to get good at the game without tutorial videos, sure we had demos/each other and the like to watch but with these tutorial videos surely it would be immeasurably easier to help players get better? Back in 1999, if someone shot a casual through a wall with the Gauss in HLDM, they would likely just assume that person was cheating and rage quit, never to return :-)

I notice a theme however... Most of the servers/games I have played in have been on remakes of the classic Quake maps. Whilst it might be heresy to ask here, I do wonder why we need Reflex when QC is out any day now (and free)? Indeed, QL is still alive and kicking and has many more players. 

Do not get me wrong, I expect I will continue to play Reflex for a good while yet, I just don't see how you can make it more appealing to the casual crowd without fundamentally changing the game. I see the same problems hitting QC but perhaps the new Duel mode there will help it, the casual can only lose 3-0 and it does not last that long. Sacrifice also looks appealing to that crowd, although I have never played it. 

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All that said - is there any clan structure in Reflex yet? Any leagues going for 4v4s/5v5s?

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