KovaaK

We need to talk about the state of the game.

140 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, HaraldQuake said:

I don't regret the money and time I spend on Reflex, but I fear the game will soon be dead when the devs won't add more and well polished social aspects to the game. There are so many other games with social aspects out there.. Reflex has to compete with other big games about players. For this the game needs working polished features and some fresh new content aswell to set itself apart from QC, QL and CPM.

After listening to the post-launch interview Turbo Pixel did with ArenaFPS, my impression is that there is still quite a lot of plans for Reflex for the next several years. Some of those are likely the things that were skipped in the development roadmap leading up to launch like new particles effects, liquids, movers/triggers, etc.. I don't know if there were other social aspects planned. I'd certainly like to see VoIP, Twitch, and/or Discord integration but I don't think those are deal breakers since there's already freeware out there to accomplish those things.

Also, Reflex always gets a bump in activity with each update. Maybe the devs will stumble upon an update that really clicks for new players. Some new mode or feature that really keeps new players playing constantly. Who knows?

Reflex will never die. Maybe in 2 or 3 years, Turbo Pixel may turn their focus to a new game (or a sequel to Reflex??), but with the foundation that already exists, there will always be a die hard player base. And if QC does succeed in making AFPS games relevant/popular again, that tide will raise all ships.

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I agree, TDM could be a good mode in reflex if there were more players.

One of the main reason new players don't like carnage, it is because the powerfulness of this item appears random and thus unfair, due to the fact that they don't know about timing items.
A possible solution could be to mix TDM and a dominion (control point) mode : the carnage does not spawn every X minutes, but it spawns when a team control a specific area for a given time. So it is more simple to understand the importance of the quad in the map, more intuitive to prepare your quad run. And the other team can try to prevent it by attacking quad zone, or try a steal, or just prepare defense/ambush for the quadrunner in other locations of the map. Another idea for this mode could be a separate score board for quad kills : the team with the more quad kills win, and with even quad kills the normal kills decide the winners (for example).

Another Idea : I see a good  opportunity  in reflex to try the elite mode from shootmania with the good speed and system movement, it could be fun.

cheers.

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The biggest problem with more than 4 players is that the game acts up and people get random (no map related) framedrops.

Also teammodes lack features. After almost 2 years of CTF there is still no regeneration powerup. Nothing interesting for tdm even stakegun got taken out and is half way in now but there is now ammo boxes for it ect.

Game is lacking unique features.

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Have the developers silently given up on this game or what? The lack of communication since the launch of 1.0 and no visible roadmap is alarming.

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After i played this game and compared it to quake live/cpma and quake champs i realized this:

-no unique content ( single thing was stake gun but no more in the game)

-skins are nice but they are few and hard to get

-no unique powerups

-i run this game on a good PC but it works hard and sometimes laggy , even on ultra low config 

-widgets are cool and usefull

-map editor is cool

-movement is clunky

-sounds are terrible

-no real visual customization

-bots are bad and not available on every good maps

- the real good maps are all from quake

-burstgun is like a small shotgun, it would be nice if it would be replaced by a hit by hit weapon

-no built in zoom 

-no real race hud like in defrag

-no statistics

-i needed to "widgetize" the game to make it playable

-the game looked better in the early days.

Thus the player base is so small, even if quake champs will be Dead on Arrival.

Solution maybe:

Choose either a simple artistic way like in the early days of go with the robotic vibe.

Make more content, more gametypes.

Make it free to play and add more unique content, otherwise no one will play it, let alone buy it, because right now it is a cpma clone with just a map editor.

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On 06/01/2017 at 5:18 PM, lolograde said:

After listening to the post-launch interview Turbo Pixel did with ArenaFPS, my impression is that there is still quite a lot of plans for Reflex for the next several years. Some of those are likely the things that were skipped in the development roadmap leading up to launch like new particles effects, liquids, movers/triggers, etc.. I don't know if there were other social aspects planned. I'd certainly like to see VoIP, Twitch, and/or Discord integration but I don't think those are deal breakers since there's already freeware out there to accomplish those things.

[...]

By social aspects I rather meant a good teambased gamemode which is easy to understand and pick up but also not too simple (like arena tdm).. It should have original maps with art and some objective to communicate about (VoIP teamchat would help a lot to make MIXED matchmaking playable and also enjoyable) but imo gamerules shouldn't be too complicated and frustrating. That's why I suggested my round based TDM and CTF gamemode concepts. I think these slight changes would make these modes a lot less frustrating while keeping their basic concepts intact. It is important to make these modes work in Matchmaking (in reality).

Ingame Clan / Team profiles and rankings would motivate people to play more teammodes aswell.

I think it's a lot about making teamplay a social experience which is easy to understand for everyone (not only the elitist people who get every carnage possible and/or capture 10 flags a game) but also is competetive by encouraging teamplay, coordination and communication.

ceezyr, lolograde and Goulox like this

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I'm just a noob lurker here, but I think the main problem with Reflex is that it wants to be a big game. I remember the early days of beta... maybe it is just nostalgia, but the game felt so much better to me in the early days. No stupid assets and overly complicated maps. Everything was dominated by visual clarity. It felt much faster too. The graphics engine had a better illumination baking process IMO. I remember just experimenting with lightning baking on simple self-made maps. Simple geometries looked so cool. I had so much fun back then. Building simple maps with friends while some other players shooting around and chatting about whatever... I think this side of Reflex should get more focus. 

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I'm working hard. I'm not going to promise features or hype anything, because what ends up being in the next build might change. When (or "wen" as people like to keep poking/hounding with) isn't known at this stage too, might be a few weeks away still.

I'm more so interested on refinement than inflating/polluting the game with more features. In an ideal world large games would happen and mysteriously have people appear out of nowhere to form endless queues of large matches, but it just doesn't happen. For example, we put a lot of time into doing CTF (a lot more than just flags...), the tech for larger maps was pretty huge, team visibility/customisation of all the colours and having those go into the maps also, sounds, events, hud/lua... there's quite a bit to it.

Regarding the abusive people saying they paid for X, game is ded devs are ded and pickering about trivial trash. You paid $10 or less and typically have hundreds of hours in-game. I'd like to know how many other games you pay for that have given as many hours and costed more. Get a reality check. Sit down.

Think about how much money is pumped into marketing for other titles from big studios and what their player numbers are at or typically hours played. Millions of dollars pumped into marketing alone which far exceeds any actual revenue for the entire project, but people still like to draw comparisons... yep, well done.

A lot of people like to think they have the secret magical answer to wave their wand and it's everything anyone ever could have possibly imagined, but the reality just isn't that.

I know people will probably slam me, but they slam me anyway regardless. Bust our asses on a huge update monthly... slammed, what about X or Y? wen.

Hype anything, get poked wen constantly, release, slammed... what about X or Y, do the devs even care. wen is X coming.

Don't say anything, try focus on working. Slammed. Say something. Slammed.

Stop with the negativity.

Enjoy something, the amount of content is insane. The updates have for a long time have been huge and frequent. The update is yes taking a bit longer this time, no need to get out the pitch forks and abuse.

seekax, klyph0rd, Yasashii and 40 others like this

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i think most of the people posting here are doing so because they feel that the quality of the product that TP delivered is worthy of more appreciation. the abusive people are a small minority of people (that would exist regardless of what was actually going on). most of the comments here are essentially "reflex is awesome, why dont more people play it and how can we change that" which is fundamentally different from "reflex is shit, what do we change to unshit it".

anyway, just thought id offer some words of encouragement as its always sad to see developers frustrated and angry etc.

wrjthe, kusumit, trip and 10 others like this

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I still think that the game has too large of a barrier for entry and needs to refine casual matchmaking so it just plops people into servers of games already running, rather than check for enough people to start a game. Because, as it stands, people aren't going to get enough levels to try competitive 1v1 because they think the only real way to get into games is through casual matchmaking, which almost never yields any results. I've said this hundreds of times and people "hear" me, but I really do think it should actually be discussed internally by the devs to implement systems/changes such as this.

I mean, I don't play anymore, but I really actually do hope for this game's success.

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4 hours ago, scar_tom said:

needs to refine casual matchmaking so it just plops people into servers of games already running, rather than check for enough people to start a game.

It already does that...

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It's simple.

The game just isn't unique enough to really make much of an impact on a fast growing market.

Let's be honest.... Reflex caters to a very small market.

The game will need some drastic changes in terms of core gameplay to have an impact or become large enough to satisfy the needs of it's small community.

There's a reason why games like Toxik, Warsow etc all have only had a small ( in comparison to other titles released at the same time ) following. It's been done, it's dated.

That's why Quake Champions is still holding the arena feel, but evolving it more - It's honestly very refreshing.

I never expected Reflex to compete against the big titles, purely because I've always known it's mainly here to cater for the old school shooters.

But if they want to survive, I think they could use the technology they have and evolve the game into something that still holds its core arena values but evolves them into something more unique.

If you look at Reflex as a brand, what is it that stands out to you? What feels like "a breath of fresh air" in the arena shooter world?... map making?
 

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6 hours ago, MAD_JIHAD said:

It already does that...

It doesn't, last time I checked it needed to have the full amount of players before it initially starts the game, then people can drop in/drop out. However, it's been at least a month since I tried and they might've changed that.

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3 hours ago, Narzdy said:

If you look at Reflex as a brand, what is it that stands out to you? What feels like "a breath of fresh air" in the arena shooter world?... map making?
 

actually yeah. that is part of why i think there should be increased access to content creation tools

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7 hours ago, Narzdy said:

That's why Quake Champions is still holding the arena feel, but evolving it more - It's honestly very refreshing.

In my opinion there's nothing refreshing in QC, it's the zero-level of creativity. It's the perfect example of a generic licence game repeating patterns of current successful other games. Like all big names, they just have money to advertise massively and exploit the natural conformism of people.

Jaguar, ddd, pseudorndnbr and 6 others like this

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On 6/20/2017 at 9:53 AM, Goulox said:

In my opinion there's nothing refreshing in QC, it's the zero-level of creativity. It's the perfect example of a generic licence game repeating patterns of current successful other games. Like all big names, they just have money to advertise massively and exploit the natural conformism of people.

It's also a big regression in terms of netcode. The engine they are using is utter crap. For example the netcode is dependent on fps. So if you're running at 200 fps you'll get a shit ton of lag unless you've got enough bandwidth.

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44 minutes ago, pseudorndnbr said:

It's also a big regression in terms of netcode. The engine they are using is utter crap. For example the netcode is dependent on fps. So if you're running at 200 fps you'll get a shit ton of lag unless you've got enough bandwidth.

Clearly they're trying to level the playing field for people playing QC on their Xbox One and PS4. Kappa.

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Just now, lolograde said:

Clearly they're trying to level the playing field for people playing QC on their Xbox One and PS4. Kappa.

Yes. And obviously there needs to be a rock paper scissor aspect to duel as well.

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9 minutes ago, pseudorndnbr said:

Yes. And obviously there needs to be a rock paper scissor aspect to duel as well.

That goes perfectly with their new Quake Champions (proprietary) controller:

QC.gif

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On 2017-06-20 at 0:53 AM, Goulox said:

In my opinion there's nothing refreshing in QC, it's the zero-level of creativity. It's the perfect example of a generic licence game repeating patterns of current successful other games. Like all big names, they just have money to advertise massively and exploit the natural conformism of people.

To be fair, reflex is a clone of a quake 3 mod. Gameplay wise its not really groundbreaking either. The groundbreaking parts of reflex are the intuitive multiplayer map editor and the netcode (even tho it has its issues).

Greed, lolograde and Electro like this

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On 6/20/2017 at 3:39 PM, hArD_a$$_nIqQa said:

actually yeah. that is part of why i think there should be increased access to content creation tools

 

7 hours ago, MAD_JIHAD said:

To be fair, reflex is a clone of a quake 3 mod. Gameplay wise its not really groundbreaking either. The groundbreaking parts of reflex are the intuitive multiplayer map editor and the netcode (even tho it has its issues).


^^^^^
Make the game far more modifiable, the magnificent map editor and the excellent netcode are already a HUGE benefit to the community... just give us more tools to create something that Pixelstudios may think "Hey.. this guy is onto something here, let's work with him to develop this mod/game further"

Like what Half-Life was to Counter Strike.

Reflex is flashy looking and fun for a small amount of time... but I think as a community, there's bound to be someone out there that creates the next team based shooter with Reflex as a base.

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18 hours ago, Narzdy said:

 


^^^^^
Make the game far more modifiable, the magnificent map editor and the excellent netcode are already a HUGE benefit to the community... just give us more tools to create something that Pixelstudios may think "Hey.. this guy is onto something here, let's work with him to develop this mod/game further"

Like what Half-Life was to Counter Strike.

Reflex is flashy looking and fun for a small amount of time... but I think as a community, there's bound to be someone out there that creates the next team based shooter with Reflex as a base.

Fuck no. Let reflex be the title to polish and play. I want a good afps to succeed, play and talk about. I don't want reflex engine to get abused for the next mediocore counter-strike, overwatch, battlefield or dota clone. Half-Life 1 Team Deathmatch (with Adrenaline  Gamer Mod) is my favourite competetive game of all time and it has just been forgotten because of Valve not giving a fuck and (easier/more accessible/more casual/more 'realistic') mods/games stealing attention. I like that there is Reflex. It's there because it is a tribute to CPMA and AFPS peak times... and modern AFPS should exist because it's a great game genre which focuses on balance, mechanics, creativety, fun and speed. If there was no Star Craft 2, RTS would be dead just like afps was for quite a while. I don't play SC2 often but I appreciate it beeing there for it being what it is. Reflex isn't perfect yet but it already does many things right and I'm sure after more updates, tweaks and more advertisement the game can become something a lot bigger.. But as I said, personally I think the game needs one not overly complicated main competetive gamemode for teams and features which support it and it's community to polarise and motivate players and keep them playing.

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1 hour ago, HaraldQuake said:

Fuck no. Let reflex be the title to polish and play. I want a good afps to succeed, play and talk about. I don't want reflex engine to get abused for the next mediocore counter-strike, overwatch, battlefield or dota clone. Half-Life 1 Team Deathmatch (with Adrenaline  Gamer Mod) is my favourite competetive game of all time and it has just been forgotten because of Valve not giving a fuck and (easier/more accessible/more casual/more 'realistic') mods/games stealing attention. I like that there is Reflex. It's there because it is a tribute to CPMA and AFPS peak times... and modern AFPS should exist because it's a great game genre which focuses on balance, mechanics, creativety, fun and speed. If there was no Star Craft 2, RTS would be dead just like afps was for quite a while. I don't play SC2 often but I appreciate it beeing there for it being what it is. Reflex isn't perfect yet but it already does many things right and I'm sure after more updates, tweaks and more advertisement the game can become something a lot bigger.. But as I said, personally I think the game needs one not overly complicated main competetive gamemode for teams and features which support it and it's community to polarise and motivate players and keep them playing.

just add bomb mode from warsow then

chortas likes this

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Here are some things I would like you to think about.

1)Maybe don't expose the full ladder. I can imagine that it will discourage the players at the low end when they see where they are and maybe don't play any further if in worst case they even go down the ladder with each match.

2) I don't know the benefit of "Last Played" in the ladder but if it has any then it gives me the impression of many people did not play for a long time and honestly I think at the moment that is counterproductive.

These things are fixed in minutes but may have some impact.

3) Many people are talking about game/weapon balance, movement and so on but I honestly think, although it might not bring in new players but what I think is missing a lot in Reflex is sound ambience/atmosphere and maybe there are some talented musicians in the community who are willing to contribute some loops for the start screen and maybe some in-game background music/(weapon?)/sounds when they get a golden guitar melee or something in return. It was just my first thought when I started QC ... whoa there is ambience/atmosphere and that did not come from the laggy gfx performance but from the sound. I don't think I have to explain that any further but you can even have best gfx end effects in the world but when sound design stinks it will never take off. I can't remember if it was Warsow or another game but the weapon sounds alone where for me like ... ok... that's it... that just does not fit in the game. Just my two cents, cheers. Trip

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