KovaaK

We need to talk about the state of the game.

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Newcomer here.

I'd like to see the dev roadmap before saying anything. I think they are aware of what's going on and that we don't know what they have in the tank for us.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Zvarri said:

Newcomer here.

I'd like to see the dev roadmap before saying anything. I think they are aware of what's going on and that we don't know what they have in the tank for us.

Hey Zvarri, welcome!

In the past, the devs did have a public roadmap. However, it appears they will not be making any new roadmaps public going forward. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Like you, I'm dying to know what the devs are cooking up. However, I guess it's a problem balancing expectations while still affording the devs some flexibility. Based on their track record, the devs have set really high expectations by always delivering really high quality updates. So the lack of a public roadmap probably affords them some flexibility to change plans without disappointing the community by delaying something to a later update or whatever.

Edited by lolograde
Grybzt likes this

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I think all main components in game is here already. Now these great tools need to make most of current situation.

  • I know portion will disagree. But Bots could be more implemented in online play. I think some kind of server side Bots management system that would manage Bots count in remote servers. Let me elaborate:
  1. Bots would only join when 1 person joins, so there wouldn't be only bots servers.
  2. Joining players would replace bots 1 by 1.
  3. After the threshold (max bots count), leaving players would be again replaced by bots.
  • Simplify casual matchmaking, to make easier to get into matches. It seems that having tons of options is not the best solution when player base can't support it. One possible solution so strip down casual MM into:
  1. FFA
  2. Any of team mode
  3. Weekly or bi-weekly rotating fun modes (Arena duel, instagib, melee only, etc..)

Of course game situation is not ideal, but I think it's nowhere near "end of no return" state. All main features are here just need to fiddle more and refine them to help player base grow. We all know most definitely that it can ! :)

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2 hours ago, Grybzt said:

I think all main components in game is here already. Now these great tools need to make most of current situation.

  • I know portion will disagree. But Bots could be more implemented in online play. I think some kind of server side Bots management system that would manage Bots count in remote servers. Let me elaborate:
  1. Bots would only join when 1 person joins, so there wouldn't be only bots servers.
  2. Joining players would replace bots 1 by 1.
  3. After the threshold (max bots count), leaving players would be again replaced by bots.
  • Simplify casual matchmaking, to make easier to get into matches. It seems that having tons of options is not the best solution when player base can't support it. One possible solution so strip down casual MM into:
  1. FFA
  2. Any of team mode
  3. Weekly or bi-weekly rotating fun modes (Arena duel, instagib, melee only, etc..)

Of course game situation is not ideal, but I think it's nowhere near "end of no return" state. All main features are here just need to fiddle more and refine them to help player base grow. We all know most definitely that it can ! :)

i can't believe i didn't think of that bot idea especially since it's present in so many other games

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Personally I don't like Bots in online play because when I play online I want to play with other people... But I think I don't mind coop and player-vs-environment gamemodes because I know players may like these modes and create nice maps for it.. And I can make sure I don't join such servers xD

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1 hour ago, HaraldQuake said:

Personally I don't like Bots in online play because when I play online I want to play with other people... But I think I don't mind coop and player-vs-environment gamemodes because I know players may like these modes and create nice maps for it.. And I can make sure I don't join such servers xD

yeah but for non-duel non-objective modes having bots in a server and taking them out as more people connect is almost definitely the better option here as you join the game and can shoot at something while you wait instead of alt-tabbing out or waiting 10-15 minutes and saying "dead game" and exiting indefinitely

Grybzt and Goulox like this

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I am a relatively new player (bought same week as launch, 45 hours and level 20, silver and have minor previous experience in Xonotic and Warsow) so I suppose I should toss in my few cents.

New players usually aren't that good with pickups on the map. Whenever I see a new player I give them a few tips like telling them what the spawn counter on the right is and why item control and armor is important. Even if players aren't that bad from a pure aim and movement perspective they don't understand the maps all too well. I met and added one new player 2 days ago and he's still playing, he played like 6 hours in one day. Guy's insane. They also usually really love hitscan weapons like the bolt and shotgun and tend to shy away from rockets. Another factor is that they might play during low hours, not get a game, refund and write a review saying "ded gaem" or whatever. I don't think Reflex Arena will ever be popular in any way and it will stay small til the end of days. There's no marketing budget or real playerbase for "pure" AFPS in the modern day, Quake Champions will most likely fail as well and I doubt there will be much in it, they did everything "perfectly" in the modern gaming space, they pandered e-sports, they have "Press E to kill" buttons and they marketed the shit out of it. One positive is that they have plenty of new players so they won't feel as weak compared to others but apparently it's plagued with terrible technical issues.

I think the duel mode should be taken out of casual matchmaking. It's by far the most popular game mode in it and it's very snowbally. Popularizing game modes like Clan Arena where both players start and end on equal footing might be a good idea. Matchmaking should be more about team based gamemodes in general. I have NEVER gotten a game of CTF, TDM, Clan Arena or Doubles in Reflex since no one plays it, even if I choose everything in MM I almost always get FFA, Insta or (Arena) Duel. I don't know if that's a bug or what, but it's almost always the exact same 4 game modes. The real issue with the game is new player retention and keeping to arena and team based modes in MM might help with that.

Alright that's it. I hope you enjoyed reading my random incomprehensible mess of a wall of text. Thanks.

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@Veeall I agree with you, we must be aware that this type of game is elitist in the sense that it is 100% skill based, very fast and quite tactically deep. Thus the potential target audience is restricted compared to a 'normal' game. However, I think that : (1) this potential target audience is way more important than the current player base, so it's possible for reflex to get more players if it get more famous. Plus, (2) there can be players that would enjoy to play casual modes in a regular basis without engaging in the competitive modes too much and never reaching a considerable level. A game like starcraft for instance, is -as reflex- extremely demanding, but it has succeeded to attract lots of casual players nonetheless, that enjoyed playing the game anyway I think. But the difference is that starcraft got the hype, thanks to the insane propaganda power of a big editor.
I must admit that it's even worse for a fast-FPS, because lots of people just can't play this type of game without feeling sick.

TLDR : even if the game is elitist, it doesn't necessarily imply that we have reached the maximum amount of players possible. They just don't know about the game.

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it doesnt help that many of us who are enthusiastic about the game face almost complete silence from the devs about what's being worked on. or maybe i'm wrong about that and they share on discord or something?

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@Goulox As I said, I think one possible thing to keep new players interested is to have more team based modes that aren't ego crushing 1v1s. I'd like to see Duel removed from casual matchmaking. Clan Arena would be perfect for casual players in my opinion, it's just good casual fun, there's no pickups to worry about, everyone starts and ends on the same footing and it isn't 1v1. I played hours of Frankfurt CA in Warsow on the same map and server and I didn't really ever get tired, even if compared to most of the guys there I was absolutely, positively and 110% shit tier.

One issue with CA is that often most maps are completely reliant on incessant IC&BL spam, but that's a personal dislike. Really though, why do all the high level players spam IC so much?

Grybzt and hArD_a$$_nIqQa like this

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The few friends I managed to grab onto afps and I don't like clan arena. We find it too shallow and cheesy. Newcomers don't have a problem with duels or pick-ups, they have a problem with how to play the game. Unfortunately, this is pretty common in every game that has a bit of depth.

So, I'd like to see something like Blood Bowl II tutorial, which is basically a singleplayer campaign in which every rules of the game is added one by one, match after match. It's a bit boring but you've got plenty of time and room to try stuff at your own pace. And you can of course don't do the campaign and go directly online if you want.

In Reflex, I'd like to see specific mission to truly learn how to play the game, at least on one map : how to play in control, out of control, how to break the player in control, armor cycling, etc... Newbies don't generally have a problem with loosing, they have a problem with being crushed without being explained anything properly. It's usually not a problem to be defeated, even by a large margin, if you understood what you could have done and how to do it. Having a friend teach you this stuff is way more excruciating than a proper tutorial.

Moreover, my friends want to play with me, not against me. One guy and I managed to catch a ctf game going on, it was the best time my guy had. I get that team gamemodes don't get much love because there's not a lot of people, but there won't be people until they get some love. QW TDM is still relevant because no one did better in 2 decades, something can be done with it. Also being able to go into games while matchmaking as a group would be nice.

I've been surprised and I've quite enjoyed the user-friendly-ness of the game and it could be improved even more with proper Watch features (UT4's style) and an interactive menu to preview your widgets while you're tweaking them would be cool.

Maybe I've missed the train, but I'm eager to see the next update.

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chat in game would be a big deal i think. discord is easy to use but to be able to boot the game up and be put in a global chat channel and say "hey does anyone want to play x/y/z mode" would make the game feel more alive than having to use an external chat client

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