Ramagan

Custom Ruleset Poll

Custom Ruleset Poll   63 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ?

    • Yes
      58
    • No
      5

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49 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hi everyone, as some of you may know already, I've been working along with players from all regions on a custom ruleset that aims to improve the current competitive ruleset's gameplay and weapon balance.

The changes proposed in this ruleset have been thoroughly tested and only aim to refine the current gameplay, nothing is game breaking, it isn't a revolution.

 The changes are most noticeable at a higher level of play, many people that played games or spectated have said that they couldn't notice a major difference. 

These changes were designed so they could be seamlessly implemented into the current competitive ruleset.

 

Full detailed explanation : http://reflex.fun/ruleset.html

Gameplay Philosophy : http://reflex.fun/ruleset.html#Gameplay

Complete changelog : http://reflex.fun/ruleset.html#Changelog

How to play on the ruleset : http://reflex.fun/ruleset.html#Playing

 

Tournaments in all Regions have been hosted to showcase the changes in the ruleset. 

VODs, replays and info in the specified forum threads :

Europe

North America

Japan

Australia

 

If you wish (or not) to see the changes proposed in this ruleset applied in the competitive, Post below using the form template :

 

Region : EU/NA/JP/AU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Prime Overlord/Overlord/Diamond/Platinium/Gold/Silver/Bronze

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes/No

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes/No

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes/No 

Why ? Arguments

 

 

Thank you !

Edited by Ramagan
Greed, Electro, erad and 3 others like this

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NA

Diamond

Yes

Yes

Yes

16 max rockets kind of ruins clan arena though. I suppose it's for the greater good

erad and Luft like this

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Region : EU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Prime Overlord

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ? : Burstgun is actually useful, I am scared of a fresh spawn if I am low and I don't automatically switch to melee when I spawn anymore. It is a bit harder to manage ammo but it is easier to remember how much ammo i will get from boxes and weapon pickups. bolt/rocketlauncher/ion are all buffed just a little especially the rocket buff makes the game even more exciting. Rockets boost yourself further. Plasma is now super spooky in situations it should. All good changes in my eyes.

Some things I disagree on:

I think burstgun should have more ammo at spawn 12? 15? 20? the more ammo the more likely you can use it as a shotgun for finishing off people throuhgout the game.

I still think grenades shouldn't do 100 damage on directs (more like 80 to be specific, splash 80 as well). 

I still think shotgun should have 10 maxammo and 5 pickup/box.

LKO-,-, erad and gfield like this

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Just now, Sharqosity said:

NA

Diamond

Yes

Yes

Yes

16 max rockets kind of ruins clan arena though. I suppose it's for the greater good

Couldn't that be edited for clan arena specifically? I don't know for sure but if it's possible what would be better? back to 25? We need to ask "Pakho" :) atdm all day

erad, Flakx and NicholasWalters like this

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Region : EU 

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Overlord

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Playing on the current ruleset I notice pretty fast that once an opponent has a strong cycle setup you are very limited in what you can actually do. You pretty much have to hit a lucky rocket/nade, hit 2-3 rails in a row or just yolo* armors to get back in control. In my opinion it creates inconsistent and boring gameplay. In this ruleset however, being OOC you are presented with a lot more options when every single weapon have received a damage buff, ammo is more scarse on every weapon and good positioning will be more rewarding.

I like that positioning plays a much bigger role in the gameplay. The stronger player with more experience and better decision making will be able to punish weaker players more consistently. 

I also prefer the new ammo system on this ruleset, in the current ruleset you pretty much don't even have to think about ammo. I didn't know where the ammo boxes were even after playing almost 1000 duels on it. (dont tell anyone plz) It also creates another element for the in control player to handle, which is something the OOC player can exploit which adds an interesting aspect to the game.

And I also think the rocket self knockback is right where its supposed to be in this ruleset, it makes for more consistent rocket jumps on maps like Catalyst (MH, upper YA).

In general I think it's just a lot more fun with a bunch more viable guns, plasma is super strong in some situations on Furnace for example, stronger IC presents a lot more opportunity to punish your opponent for both players. Bigger splash on rockets mitigates the A/D spamming on new spawns and in general makes it a bit stronger, faster burstgun makes it a viable gun to either finish off your opponent or just make your opponent think twice about spawnfragging you. All in all an improvement to the DUEL gameplay. In my opinion.

 

erad, Joe, LKO-,- and 1 other like this

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24 minutes ago, Luft said:

Couldn't that be edited for clan arena specifically?

Most likely yes, but this would create inconsistencies that the developers probably don't want

erad likes this

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Region: EU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking: Overlord

Have you played games on the custom ruleset: Yes, around 100 duels or so

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset: Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset?: Yes

Why?: I feel like the ruleset promotes far more thought out, strategic play than in the current competitive ruleset while still rewarding good execution. As of right now, the balance between armours, movement and the weapons is slightly skewed as the armours are too powerful compared to the weapons. This leads to bad in-control play being unnecessarily hard to punish as the opponent can mindlessly cycle through items while basically being unkillable unless they get completely outaimed - positional mistakes don't matter if the weapons aren't strong enough to capitalize on them.

To remedy this issue, the ruleset slightly buffs the weapons, not only in terms of damage but by improving the responsiveness. Rocket-jumping is a thousand times more reliable and the IC feels much more rewarding with the changes to the trace size and the reload speed. Ammo is also changed to further balance the weapon buffs, which I feel is a very needed change as managing ammo in the current ruleset isn't much of a task. The end result is more exciting gameplay - taking control back doesn't feel as much of a dice roll as it is right now because both players are offered more opportunities to regain it.

Overall, I think the ruleset is a positive and refreshing change to the current competitive ruleset. I'm a bit undecided on the bolt reload change as it makes Danny a big disgusting bolttihomo, but I think it's fair that we give him a chance to shine))

 

Joe, Grybzt, Jaguar and 2 others like this

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Region : EU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking :Diamond

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Some

Why ? Ammo changes are great, IC, plasma and GL changes are good. Burst combined with bad spawn system is terrible since there's no way to predict enemy spawning right into you/ between you and health. With the current movement and weak RL knockback it allows for way too much freedom in troll engagements where you rely on hitting far more than you should considering your stack and position. Due to movement, weak RL knockback and IC trace spammy dodge is far too valuable because you can avoid most directs without getting knocked up and tracking it with IC is impossible.

erad and LKO-,- like this

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Posted (edited)

Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Diamond

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ? While I don't think the custom ruleset is perfect, I think it is an improvement and a ton of fun.  I heavily lean towards hitscan weapons generally, but this ruleset has me using a lot more rockets without them feeling overpowered.  It makes a lot of the lesser used weapons feel good and strong.  I'd be really interested in having the devs weigh in at least on how the feel about the proposed changes.

Edit:  To clarify, I only have experience in duel.  I can't speak for any team modes.

playmorereflex

Edited by erad
Clarification
LKO-,- likes this

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47 minutes ago, banReflex said:

With the current movement and weak RL knockback it allows for way too much freedom in troll engagements where you rely on hitting far more than you should considering your stack and position. Due to movement, weak RL knockback and IC trace spammy dodge is far too valuable because you can avoid most directs without getting knocked up and tracking it with IC is impossible.

Movement and RL knockback haven't been touched and the issues you're describing exists in the current ruleset aswell. I will however agree that A/D spamming with IC becomes stronger but I'd rather the IC be stronger and improve the general gameplay than having it as it is.

erad likes this

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Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Platinum

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ? In my opinion, the two biggest shortcomings of reflex, having played TF2 before coming to it, are the size of the rockets, and the amount of knockback that they, and all other guns do. The pea-sized rockets can be frustrating, and make it feel like you either direct your opponent, or completely miss them. I realize the rocket's knockback on enemies is unchanged on the custom ruleset, but the increased projectile and splash size makes juggling feel much more consistent, let alone possible, than it feels on live. On live, it feels as though the player out of control has to pray for the opponent to walk into his rockets, and many trap scenarios don't work out because of how tiny the rocket projectile is. The rocket projectile feels inappropriately small for how large, and more specifically how tall, the reflex robot model is. This makes airshots feel very awkward, and often leaves me feeling like I was robbed of a sick shot. After learning duel through reflex, I tried CPMA for a bit, and the rockets in that game felt much more appropriately sized in proportion to the models. In addition to this, the much stronger lightning gun in comparison to reflex makes it feel as though a fully stacked opponent is still killable if you hit some sick 90. In reflex, the ion canon feels almost underpowered in comparison, with the threat of suspension being less prevalent, and the shear dps against a fully stacked opponent being almost negligible. The new IC on the custom ruleset felt much more threatening, and rewarding to use.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed playing on the custom ruleset and would like to see it implemented into live. 

LKO-,- and erad like this

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Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Diamond

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : No (working on it)

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ? My impression is that overall these rules provide a better experience for players and spectators across the board. We saw more interesting and close match-ups in the EU and NA tournaments. After watching, analyzing, and casting 10+ hours of tournament games, it is very apparent that the ruleset changes don't benefit any particular play style or weapon over others; it leaves more room for creative play OOC and more to manage in control. I can appreciate the design philosophy of prioritizing weapon buffs, while promoting smart use of ammo and positioning.

 I think at a bare minimum, this provides a better starting point than the current competitive ruleset to continue exploring further tweaks to settings if it's necessary in the future. It would be nice to have an opportunity in the main build of the game to collect more information on how the ruleset plays outside of duel. I think it is smart to focus Reflex's design around high level duel gameplay as the core experience, but seeing the impact to team modes is important too. Luckily, I think casual gameplay is largely unaffected by these changes.

I hope this gets more players reinvested in competitive Reflex. Thanks again for taking the initiative Rama.

 

 

Jaguar, Joe, Smilecythe and 2 others like this

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2 hours ago, Twitchy said:

In my opinion, the two biggest shortcomings of reflex, having played TF2 before coming to it, are the size of the rockets, and the amount of knockback that they, and all other guns do. The pea-sized rockets can be frustrating, and make it feel like you either direct your opponent, or completely miss them. I realize the rocket's knockback on enemies is unchanged on the custom ruleset, but the increased projectile and splash size makes juggling feel much more consistent, let alone possible, than it feels on live. On live, it feels as though the player out of control has to pray for the opponent to walk into his rockets, and many trap scenarios don't work out because of how tiny the rocket projectile is. The rocket projectile feels inappropriately small for how large, and more specifically how tall, the reflex robot model is. This makes airshots feel very awkward, and often leaves me feeling like I was robbed of a sick shot. 

I haven't actually tried this custom ruleset (or played Reflex at all lately), but I 100% agree with this.

Twitchy and erad like this

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Region : EU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Diamond

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ? Overall I think this custom ruleset achieves what it sets out to do - it rewards smarter plays and positioning for the out of control player, and makes ammo management a necessity for the in control player. The extra damage and larger trace size on hitscan weapons is generally nice across the board, whether you're new to the game or not. Critically the changes don't break anything and indeed as has been pointed out, they are not even noticeable at low levels of play. So this ruleset doesn't punish anyone and it doesn't seem to reward any particular style of play. You don't have to throw yourself at an armour and hope for two cheesy melee hits to get some measure of control back.


My thanks again to Rama for all of his work tweaking this ruleset, taking onboard feedback, and hosting the tournaments.

LKO-,-, hello!, lolograde and 1 other like this

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Region : EU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Diamond

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : No

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : DONT KNOW

Why? i dont actually think that the weapon balance is that bad in basereflex - at lower skills rockets dominate theres no question, but at highmid skill it evens out ok. im skeptical of the strong IC knockback which leads to more defensive style play imo and could lead to alot less use of aggressive movement options in higher level play. if the goal is to reduce the +forward rocket-zerging of in control players, you could always have just nerfed the armors a bit.

LKO-,-, Furioness and banReflex like this

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Region : EU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Diamond

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why?

I really liked not having my armours yolo'd as much. It definitely felt like the stronger IC gave a lot more options to punish bad positioning. Also I thought rockets were in a good place. Also coming from TF2, the rocketjumping felt worlds better. I thought rocket splash and stuff felt fine. They were consistent enough to rely upon and spamming corners still didn't feel like it covered too many options.

LKO-,- likes this

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Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : haven't played matchmaking

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : No

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ? being more powerful is more fun for players on all ends of the skill spectrum but i would like to say that my yes would be contingent on self-damage mitigation from armor being 50% no matter which color armor you have. the current implementation encourages robotic, boring playstyles

LKO-,- likes this

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Region : EU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Supreme Prime Great Overlord Beat0n Newbie Destroyer (AKA Platinum)

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes/No 

Why? Breaking Control is impossible. No matter what ruleset. I dont care if it goes on live servers or not, since I think the majority of tweaks are to minor to change anything. Love the ammo nerf and the stronger IC. Everything else is just the same too me.  

And f*** you for forcing me to make a user on this weebsite to be part of the poll. :ok_hand:

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21 hours ago, Luft said:

Couldn't that be edited for clan arena specifically? I don't know for sure but if it's possible what would be better? back to 25? We need to ask "Pakho" :) atdm all day

Respect the pakho.

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Region : EU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Gold

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ? Honestly I didn't feel any major changes during the few games I played with the ruleset, so if people are happy with it, I don't see any reason to vote no. Just one remark though ; imo the SG should be the most efficient weapon to use (if used well) at very close range over the RL. This is not the case in the current ruleset, but I don't think it is better in the custom one. maybe give more love to the SG.

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Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Gold

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : No

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : No

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ? I'm a fan of stronger weapons and more restrictive ammo systems. Shooting wet noodles at a 100/150+ player is not fun. and bigger and better rockets = good for race, the one true mode

lolograde and LKO-,- like this

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One issue with increasing the size of certain weapons is firing over walls right in your face that you can just barely see over or around corners you will often hit them up close.

A possible solution would be to have the projectile collision size start at 0 and increase to its designated size over a short period of time, but then that could introduce an issue of being able to shoot at someone who cant shoot back at you. A possible solution to that would be to have the weapon vs world collision size be 0 and for weapon vs players it would be the designated size. That might mess with performance as you are doubling the amount of collision detection required when people start shooting.

LKO-,- and Goulox like this

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8 hours ago, MAD_JIHAD said:

One issue with increasing the size of certain weapons is firing over walls right in your face that you can just barely see over or around corners you will often hit them up close.

Entities and brushes have different collision numbers, maybe if you played the ruleset perhaps :^)

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Region : EU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Overlord

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ? 

I don't enjoy the lack of punishment in reflex, the ambiguity of the GL's role and a few other things.

I don't support this ruleset on the basis it is the best it can be, I believe a lot more can change and I hope this is a step in the right direction to achieving a gameplay suitable for high level players (gameplay should always be balanced around high skill in my philosophy).

Pill_ and LKO-,- like this

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