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Custom Ruleset Poll

Custom Ruleset Poll   63 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ?

    • Yes
      58
    • No
      5

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49 posts in this topic

13 hours ago, Goulox said:

Just one remark though ; imo the SG should be the most efficient weapon to use (if used well) at very close range over the RL. This is not the case in the current ruleset, but I don't think it is better in the custom one. maybe give more love to the SG.

This is an interesting philosophical question, I think. Do all weapons exist on the same level or is it tiered? It's typical that rockets, lightning (IC), and rail/bolt are "upper tier" weapons and therefore more important in the meta (controlling weapons). If you'd like each weapon to be designed to be the most powerful in certain situations, it'd necessarily be a departure from the tiered weapon structure, no?

I'm not saying that's a bad thing (buffing the SG to be the most efficient weapon at very close range), only that the philosophical implications are broader than just buffing one weapon.

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2 hours ago, lolograde said:

This is an interesting philosophical question, I think. Do all weapons exist on the same level or is it tiered? It's typical that rockets, lightning (IC), and rail/bolt are "upper tier" weapons and therefore more important in the meta (controlling weapons). If you'd like each weapon to be designed to be the most powerful in certain situations, it'd necessarily be a departure from the tiered weapon structure, no?

I'm not saying that's a bad thing (buffing the SG to be the most efficient weapon at very close range), only that the philosophical implications are broader than just buffing one weapon.

All weapons exist on the same level regarding the DPS and are tiered regarding the tactical aspect : more weapons are more situational than others and this is where you get the upper tiered weapons (you can cover every situation with RL + IC + bolt, whereas you're limited to defensive or ambush options with the rest).

A DPS imbalance means Quakeworld, not that it doesn't have tactics, but this weapons state makes duels... rage oriented.

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35 minutes ago, Zvarri said:

All weapons exist on the same level regarding the DPS and are tiered regarding the tactical aspect : more weapons are more situational than others and this is where you get the upper tiered weapons (you can cover every situation with RL + IC + bolt, whereas you're limited to defensive or ambush options with the rest).

A DPS imbalance means Quakeworld, not that it doesn't have tactics, but this weapons state makes duels... rage oriented.

Is that true of this ruleset? All weapons do the "same level" of DPS? Seems like that'd make some weapons nearly pointless because they're more difficult to use with high accuracy (like BG, GL, or PG).

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Region : EU

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking :Platinium

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? :thinking:

Why ? Haven't played enough on the ruleset to have a strong opinion. Seems good on paper, what few games I did play felt fine, if the majority want it implemented I'm fine with it. Its time to get passed this ruleset crying and this is probably the best chance.  

 

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Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Overlord

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ? I played the ruleset almost exclusively over the live game since exp plus's return and experienced most of its iterations in high level duels. When I first played on the exp plus ruleset against a mid level player, I barely noticed any difference and it didn't feel any better. Once I dueled against some better players on the ruleset I was surprised at how much more fun it was than the current live ruleset. We had the best duels in recent memory, and the quality of the ruleset has mostly improved since then. It changes playstyle at the top level without being very noticeable in lower level games. The individual changes of the ruleset are all minor and do not change the core gameplay. The cumulative effect of these small tweaks is a change the incentives for players who constantly look to make optimal decisions in duel. The appeal of reflex for its biggest fans has always been the love of the game and the strive for improvement. Replacing the current ruleset with this improved version would go a long way in showing that the developers still share this sentiment.

This exp plus ruleset does a much better job at creating healthy incentives than the current comp one. Hard cycling and attacking into bad fights with higher stack is rewarded often the current ruleset. This exp plus ruleset allows in control and out of control players to punish braindead play like this and makes for much more engaging duels at the top level. An important thing to understand is that the ruleset does not change the game, every option and playstyle seen in the current comp ruleset is possible in exp plus. All it changes are the incentives, and only those at a high level will be taking advantage of the changes. Top level duelers are not as concerned with what playstyle is fun, they are more concerned with which playstyle is most effective. Meaning top level players are simply at the mercy of the ruleset because it determines which type of decisions are rewarded and punished. If current comp rewards a certain playstyle, top players are going to play closer to that. The exp plus ruleset changes what is punished and what is rewarded, thereby bringing the optimal playstyle closer to a playstyle that creates fun and engaging duels.

The effects of the ruleset are difficult to notice for the majority reflex players, and that’s a good thing. Having witnessed a lot of feedback on the ruleset I can say that almost all responses have been positive or some form of "I can't tell the difference." It makes sense that the effect of the ruleset change increases along with the skill level of the duel. Considering the vast range in skill levels in reflex, the majority of players will be barely affected by the differences in the exp plus ruleset, and that is why it is safe to implement. It improves the most important level of play in reflex and does not change mid and low level play significantly.

After seeing the exp plus ruleset develop as a result of the feedback of dozens of players, it seems like rama ruleset is not really the best name for these changes. The effects of individual changes are not often clear, so the ruleset went through many iterations and was tested by a wide range of playstyles before being used in the tournaments. The final ruleset is not based on any one player’s opinion. It was tested by most of the active good players. Since reflex is highly competitive, some criticisms of the ruleset are completely understandable. However, considering the number of players involved, the amount of suggestions that were implemented, and the difficulty of understanding the cumulative effects of so many small changes, it is laughable to say that the ruleset was created specifically to favor a certain playstyle. I can say with complete confidence that this ruleset was created out of passion for the game. However, the ruleset is not perfect. For example, the strength of A-D strafing continues to create inconsistency in fights, and this current version of exp plus does nothing to fix it. Regardless, this ruleset is a far improvement over the current comp. The work has already been done here, the ruleset is tested in tournaments and proven to be well received, and the only thing left is for it to be added.

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Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Plat

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why ?

People have said all the reasons in favor that motivate my opinion in favor of the changes. Just commenting to offer a dissenting argument (one which I personally don't think is sufficient).

When I first played the ruleset (immediately after games of the current ruleset), it felt like an absurd amount of damage hit that was tough to expect. On 60 ping, it felt like playing current ruleset on at least >80, in terms of eating directs quicker than the visual cues, getting bounced around unexpectedly by splash, rails hitting after you duck behind a corner, etc.

On lower pings (40 and under) along my own coast I haven't noticed that experience, and unequivocally prefer expp to current ruleset.

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Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Diamond

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : No

Why ?

I honestly did not notice many differences between the current ruleset and this one.  But I am probably not sensitive enough to notice some of these 0.001 knockback/hitscan changes etc. or how that influences the game.  I think it was a mistake for devs to give everyone the ability to make their own ruleset, its just too meta and divisive to have all of these different rulesets going on.  And each different ruleset has these tiny tiny minute changes that are hardly noticeable

The things I did notice-  I did like the slightly increased RJ, even if it did lower the amount of skill needed for some jumps.  Lower ammo was annoying imo you couldnt chain as many frags together but it could be better for TDM 

 

 

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Having had more than a couple weeks now to reflect upon the changes, I would like to say how surprised I am. I really didn't think the difference was all that massive after playing the cup, but having played more of this ruleset as time went on, the difference this makes to me now is insane, to the point where I find playing the live ruleset rather annoying. Maybe it is just me becoming more adjusted to custom ruleset, but on live I find myself getting upset at the in-control opponent taking terrible fights and winning them because there's a lack of punishment way more frequently now. As I said, it might just be me adjusting or the custom ruleset accomodating my decisions better, anyway I enjoy games on this custom iteration of the game way more now. I didn't feel this way after I had played the cup, but now I strongly prefer the custom ruleset, which is why I felt the need to post again. On the topic of it being placebo: when the webserver got changed I got to play a few "placeboflex"  (essentially live) games before the new setup was corrected to push the ruleset again. While I couldn't put my finger on it, things felt a bit off and out of control play was more frustrating. (Mind you at that point I was convinced I was playing the crs) At the time I thought my opponent was just playing rather well, but once the ruleset was fixed (back to custom) games were way more dynamic, including more control shifts. I realize that the sample size of a couple games is way too small to make for a strong argument, but I thought it'd be an interesting experience to share as feedback. 

Anyway these are my two cents, now that I've had more time to play and provide feedback that goes past my previous "it felt pretty good"

 

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Officially confirmed for next update. Everything from my end is done with implementation of it.

Just want to say, this is how custom rulesets should be handled. Everything about the process was done right. Documentation, discussions, changelogs and explanations.

Thanks to everyone that provided feedback and to Rama for coordinating it all.

 

I believe it addresses a lot of consistency issues while providing more solidified roles for weapons. By providing this contrast it makes the gameplay less flat/uniform overall. I think it'll give an improved platform moving forward. Another added bonus is that for the most part, the more casual players won't notice any drastic changes. A good step towards evolving the gameplay I think.

Thanks again everyone.

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Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Platinum

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why? 

There aren't any changes in this ruleset that I disagree with. All of the weapons have been made more powerful, but I still don't think that they are powerful enough. The armors in Reflex Arena mean quite a lot, probably more than in any other Arena Shooter.. but the weapons aren't powerful enough to combat them.

You often find yourself damaging your opponent just enough for them to maintain their item cycle (and more importantly, stay in-control), but not enough for you to secure the frag. What ends up happening is, the out-of-control will deal a ton of damage of the course of a few item respawns and eventually ends up dying due to being out-of-control and not having the resources available to continuously contest. Then the cycle repeats itself. Even if you (the out-of-control) are dealing far more damage to the in-control than they are dealing to you, after three or four engagements you no longer have the hp to fight (at this point in the match the stacks are usually even), and you have to make a choice.. do you risk another death and go for the frag, or do you try to buy time and wait for the next item? Either way, both choices are in the favor of the player who is currently in the lead.

The best way to address this is to slightly up the damage potential of just about every weapon. You could increase the RLs splash slightly to 124units, so spam is more effective. You could decrease the reload (increase the firerate) on Plasma to 90ms to have a similar effect. You could up the dps of the IC to 139 (6dmg @ 43ms). And even slightly buff the Shotgun.

Maybe the changes I'm proposing are too drastic, idk. But I do think that more powerful weapons should be considered, as this is an issue that I feel has been overlooked for too long.

beat0n, A. Benz, erad and 4 others like this

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On 9/7/2017 at 1:55 AM, LoNeZiLLa said:

Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Platinum

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why? 

There aren't any changes in this ruleset that I disagree with. All of the weapons have been made more powerful, but I still don't think that they are powerful enough. The armors in Reflex Arena mean quite a lot, probably more than in any other Arena Shooter.. but the weapons aren't powerful enough to combat them.

You often find yourself damaging your opponent just enough for them to maintain their item cycle (and more importantly, stay in-control), but not enough for you to secure the frag. What ends up happening is, the out-of-control will deal a ton of damage of the course of a few item respawns and eventually ends up dying due to being out-of-control and not having the resources available to continuously contest. Then the cycle repeats itself. Even if you (the out-of-control) are dealing far more damage to the in-control than they are dealing to you, after three or four engagements you no longer have the hp to fight (at this point in the match the stacks are usually even), and you have to make a choice.. do you risk another death and go for the frag, or do you try to buy time and wait for the next item? Either way, both choices are in the favor of the player who is currently in the lead.

The best way to address this is to slightly up the damage potential of just about every weapon. You could increase the RLs splash slightly to 124units, so spam is more effective. You could decrease the reload (increase the firerate) on Plasma to 90ms to have a similar effect. You could up the dps of the IC to 139 (6dmg @ 43ms). And even slightly buff the Shotgun.

Maybe the changes I'm proposing are too drastic, idk. But I do think that more powerful weapons should be considered, as this is an issue that I feel has been overlooked for too long.

Yeah, one of my biggest gripes about reflex, and one that I've heard from people I've tried introducing the game to, is that the weapons do so little dmg compared to the strength of the armor. A lot of people find the shooting part of FPS games more fun than the item control aspect, myself included, so I wouldn't mind emphasizing that part of the game more. 

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Most other shooters are all about aim already. I mean we do have movement but nerfing the armor to the ground is not a good idea imo. Weapons in the custom ruleset are strong enough, if I wanted to play an aim heavy shooter I might as well play one without any items spawning on the map whatsoever.

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On 9/13/2017 at 4:39 AM, Warlord Wossman said:

Most other shooters are all about aim already. I mean we do have movement but nerfing the armor to the ground is not a good idea imo. Weapons in the custom ruleset are strong enough, if I wanted to play an aim heavy shooter I might as well play one without any items spawning on the map whatsoever.

It's not about nerfing the armours to the ground or making the game more dependent on aim - it's about forcing the player who is in control to think more about their decisions and giving the player out of control more options for recovering. Stronger weapons make control more volatile, meaning more exciting games, less stomping and more thoughtful play from both players.

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23 hours ago, LKO-,- said:

It's not about nerfing the armours to the ground or making the game more dependent on aim - it's about forcing the player who is in control to think more about their decisions and giving the player out of control more options for recovering. Stronger weapons make control more volatile, meaning more exciting games, less stomping and more thoughtful play from both players.

If people really wanted control to be weaker why is t7 the most popular map? The item cycle on it is by far the easiest out of the maps in matchmaking (the only ones people play anyways). I think that might actually be the problem some people have - comming back on t7. The question is if it's really the weapon balance or the map itself tho. The current system seems to work somewhat fine on other maps.

Then again there is many other things that could be done to make control weaker such as reducing weapon respawn from 10 to 8 seconds or spawning people with more ressources so rockets don't one shot them. (These are random things thrown in btw not actual suggestions)

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On 9/12/2017 at 6:39 PM, Warlord Wossman said:

Most other shooters are all about aim already. I mean we do have movement but nerfing the armor to the ground is not a good idea imo. Weapons in the custom ruleset are strong enough, if I wanted to play an aim heavy shooter I might as well play one without any items spawning on the map whatsoever.

I don't think anyone wants to nerf the armors into the ground, it's about making the weapons strong enough to combat the armor control. So slightly stronger than Rama's v1 ruleset.

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On 9/14/2017 at 11:57 PM, Warlord Wossman said:

If people really wanted control to be weaker why is t7 the most popular map? The item cycle on it is by far the easiest out of the maps in matchmaking (the only ones people play anyways). I think that might actually be the problem some people have - comming back on t7. The question is if it's really the weapon balance or the map itself tho. The current system seems to work somewhat fine on other maps.

Then again there is many other things that could be done to make control weaker such as reducing weapon respawn from 10 to 8 seconds or spawning people with more ressources so rockets don't one shot them. (These are random things thrown in btw not actual suggestions)

I think the map is fine - it's very punishing as a map as a single mistake can lead into a chain of frags, but it has a lot of positions the out of control player can take in order to regain control. You'll see a bunch of high-level players absolutely destroying people on that map and leaving seemingly no chance for the other player to retaliate, but I'd argue that is only because of the skill difference, whether it'd be in general or just specifically on that map.  I'm obviously a bit biased since it's my favourite map in the current pool, but I believe it's balanced quite well.

I believe that this is the best way to fix this issue, as it also has the side benefit of weapons being much more fun (since they're more powerful and responsive) and control shifting around faster. It also helps combat the +back playstyle more efficiently, which is objectively a slower, less exciting way to play the game. Reflex should be about speed, not about two players staying at neutral score and +backing for 5 minutes because both of them are too afraid to take a risky fight.

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5 hours ago, LKO-,- said:

It also helps combat the +back playstyle more efficiently, which is objectively a slower, less exciting way to play the game.

People find different things exciting you bumbo.

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On 09/07/2017 at 7:55 AM, LoNeZiLLa said:

Region : NA

Highest reached rank in Matchmaking : Platinum

Have you played games on the custom ruleset : Yes

Have you watched games played on the custom ruleset : Yes

Do you wish to see the changes proposed by the custom ruleset implemented into the current competitive ruleset ? : Yes

Why? 

There aren't any changes in this ruleset that I disagree with. All of the weapons have been made more powerful, but I still don't think that they are powerful enough. The armors in Reflex Arena mean quite a lot, probably more than in any other Arena Shooter.. but the weapons aren't powerful enough to combat them.

You often find yourself damaging your opponent just enough for them to maintain their item cycle (and more importantly, stay in-control), but not enough for you to secure the frag. What ends up happening is, the out-of-control will deal a ton of damage of the course of a few item respawns and eventually ends up dying due to being out-of-control and not having the resources available to continuously contest. Then the cycle repeats itself. Even if you (the out-of-control) are dealing far more damage to the in-control than they are dealing to you, after three or four engagements you no longer have the hp to fight (at this point in the match the stacks are usually even), and you have to make a choice.. do you risk another death and go for the frag, or do you try to buy time and wait for the next item? Either way, both choices are in the favor of the player who is currently in the lead.

The best way to address this is to slightly up the damage potential of just about every weapon. You could increase the RLs splash slightly to 124units, so spam is more effective. You could decrease the reload (increase the firerate) on Plasma to 90ms to have a similar effect. You could up the dps of the IC to 139 (6dmg @ 43ms). And even slightly buff the Shotgun.

Maybe the changes I'm proposing are too drastic, idk. But I do think that more powerful weapons should be considered, as this is an issue that I feel has been overlooked for too long.

Personally I think T7 would be a better map if there was less healths and maybe slightly different weapon layout. I don't like that it's possible to pick up IC, YA and RA right after each other (beastmode activated) in really short time.

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56 minutes ago, HaraldQuake said:

Personally I think T7 would be a better map if there was less healths and maybe slightly different weapon layout. I don't like that it's possible to pick up IC, YA and RA right after each other (beastmode activated) in really short time.

Or a single lower route between the atriums rather than two. 

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On 19/09/2017 at 1:47 PM, lolograde said:

Or a single lower route between the atriums rather than two. 

This is starting to sound like a certain cpm map.

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