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tehace

thcdm4 - Acidic Nature

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Map page - http://thc333.com/reflex/#sixth

Screens directly - http://thc333.com/reflex/thcdm4/index.html

 

The quest for compact duel map like cpm3 continues. This time I feel like the scale is there (dm2/3 being too big imo). I worked on dm4 for like 2 days and have a great idea but it turned out to be completely enormous map for a duel... therefore I scraped it and quickly put together very messy version of this map with very basic blocks (most of the time not even connected properly) and after getting the feeling and scale I polished them out. From very limited time I had on it playing with friends (more playtest to follow) it felt pretty good. Would love to hear your feelings about the gameplay & aesthetics.

 

I wonder how much health is advised to be on a small map like this?

 

AEon suggestion to made the stairs stripes turned out great :) Im still struggling with light leaks. How does that works exactly I have several instanced where I had some weird light just popping out of nowhere in the middle of the wall once i put another object next to it (they didnt have any textured sides exposed to outside light nor they were overlaping...

 

Map on reflexfiles - http://reflexfiles.com/file/34

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except for thcdm2 which turned out to be really crappy I dont like it either ;0 but dm5 is in the works

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AEon suggestion to made the stairs stripes turned out great :) Im still struggling with light leaks. How does that works exactly I have several instanced where I had some weird light just popping out of nowhere in the middle of the wall once i put another object next to it (they didnt have any textured sides exposed to outside light nor they were overlaping...

 

I immediately noted the steps on the screenshots :)... your presentation site is really nice. I normally give detailed feedback on maps over at Quake3World... but since I never actually played Reflex online, its difficult to suggest something about items and such. Downloading your map, and giving it a run.

 

About light bleeding... I have a lot of that in my own map: AEdm7r - AEon's DM7 Reflex ... and noted that no matter how I change the brush work, brushes on edge so only the edges connect, full overlap, or even "evil" intersecting.... it does not change the "random" light bleed. Apparently this is a known bug the devs are working on, so I am dropping any work trying to fix it... alas.

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Map feedback...

  • The teleporter under the grenade launcher, could be rotated by 180°, the air intake effect is passing through the wall behind it instead of sucking air in in front. The other two TPs are fine.
  • In the MH (100 health) room there is a pedestal in the other corner... with nothing on it? Trick-jump to the MH from there? I found jumping from both nearby stairs easier to get to the MH directly, though.
  • Nice darkcaulk work... so your lighting compile times should be nice and low.
  • One thing I found very strange is the low FPS... in my much larger map I still have 125 FPS (mostly)... in your map the frame rate drops to 45-60 FPS, consistently low.... making me miss some of the jumps (and I already miss them with high FPS ;)). It is the glow on all the green trims? Or the amount of real-time-lighting sources... your lights. Very strange. I have so far not used any lighting entities (a few glow textures and the skylight) so its difficult to know what is up here.

Pathing would need a lot more running around for me to fully understand and appreciate.

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I did some more testing on your map:

  • When removing the lights on the ceiling and on your steps, I was able to get from 100 to 110+ FPS... so the real-time lights definitely hurt FPS.
  • Just for fun: I compiled the map then by moving the camera outside of your map, looking into the void, this slightly speeds up the light compile from 284s (looking at a few items inside the map) to 278s (looking into the void, 2% faster).

Thanks to your map, I am warned... I would suggest it might be better to use the "light" textures (materials) instead to light the map... AFAICT those are static lights that do not impact the FPS as badly. Dynamic, real-time lights should probably only be used (let us say 10 times) for effect...

tehace likes this

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Map feedback...

  • The teleporter under the grenade launcher, could be rotated by 180°, the air intake effect is passing through the wall behind it instead of sucking air in in front. The other two TPs are fine.
  • In the MH (100 health) room there is a pedestal in the other corner... with nothing on it? Trick-jump to the MH from there? I found jumping from both nearby stairs easier to get to the MH directly, though.
  • Nice darkcaulk work... so your lighting compile times should be nice and low.
  • One thing I found very strange is the low FPS... in my much larger map I still have 125 FPS (mostly)... in your map the frame rate drops to 45-60 FPS, consistently low.... making me miss some of the jumps (and I already miss them with high FPS ;)). It is the glow on all the green trims? Or the amount of real-time-lighting sources... your lights. Very strange. I have so far not used any lighting entities (a few glow textures and the skylight) so its difficult to know what is up here.
  • When removing the lights on the ceiling and on your steps, I was able to get for 100 to 110+ FPS... so the real-time lights definitely hurt FPS.
  • Just for fun: I compiled the map then by moving the camera outside of your map, looking into the void, this slightly speeds up the light compile from 284s (looking at a few items inside the map) to 278s (looking into the void, 2% faster).

Pathing would need a lot more running around for me to fully understand and appreciate.

 

  • I didnt noticed the teleport thanks for pointing that out, will fix that in the next update.
  • yep that was the intention although I foudn it more annoying than anything, already reworked that just a tiny bit.
  • fighting the leaks is the worst task ever
  • I havent noticed the frame drops but if that is the case I'll replace the lights although I really do like those Im using as they give soft scattered light.
  • thanks for the feedback, really appreciated.

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updated with some improvements

  • removed 50%+ dynamic light sources
  • replaced all top level light sources with spot_sm (static)
  • slightly reworked the MH area
  • fixed the portal facing wrong direction

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spot_sm (static)

 

I must look into those:

structural/industrial/lights/light_spot_sml/light_spot_sml
structural/industrial/lights/light_step_sml/light_step_sml

You mean these? Would be nice if they are indeed static... could then add some deco lighting.

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spot_sm (static)

 

I must look into those:

structural/industrial/lights/light_spot_sml/light_spot_sml
structural/industrial/lights/light_step_sml/light_step_sml

You mean these? Would be nice if they are indeed static... could then add some deco lighting.

 

yep from what I've tested they just cast light but no dynamic shadows on neither players/objects. I dontl ike them though due to the fact that when used in 'normal' height rooms (most of my levels have a level height of 160-192) they cast overly bright light from that distance.

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Hmm... well I did test:

structural/industrial/lights/light_spot_sml/light_spot_sml

and threw a few grenades under it - the ultimate test ;) - and the grenades did cast a shadow. I fear all the lights are actually dynamic. Since they are shows in real-time in the game and the editor. And I think the quality of the "light baking" may also be a giveaway. If it looks great, it's a dynamic light... if the lighting does not look as smooth, e.g. by using the light textures, the result will be "pixely" or more correctly "texely" (if I recently read up on that correctly).

 

Tested this in a small box map.

structural/industrial/lights/light_step_sml/light_step_sml

Could not properly check if grenades cast shadows for this one. But I suspect yes.

 

 

It would of course be neat to have dynamics lights for the editor, to get the lighting "preview" just right, to only then have the lights show as baked in after a light compile, but without the dynamic light used in the game.

 

If I got any of this wrong, I'd appreciate being corrected.

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Hmm... well I did test:

structural/industrial/lights/light_spot_sml/light_spot_sml

and threw a few grenades under it - the ultimate test ;) - and the grenades did cast a shadow. I fear all the lights are actually dynamic. Since they are shows in real-time in the game and the editor. And I think the quality of the "light baking" may also be a giveaway. If it looks great, it's a dynamic light... if the lighting does not look as smooth, e.g. by using the light textures, the result will be "pixely" or more correctly "texely" (if I recently read up on that correctly).

 

Tested this in a small box map.

structural/industrial/lights/light_step_sml/light_step_sml

Could not properly check if grenades cast shadows for this one. But I suspect yes.

 

 

It would of course be neat to have dynamics lights for the editor, to get the lighting "preview" just right, to only then have the lights show as baked in after a light compile, but without the dynamic light used in the game.

 

If I got any of this wrong, I'd appreciate being corrected.

 

Hey guys :) Top work here!

 

All lights are dynamic, we are baking indirect lighting only (i.e. light bounces around corners). All lights give specular reflections which are camera relative (so they can't be baked).

 

Having said that, as discovered yes some are more expensive than others. Shadow casting lights are obviously more expensive.

 

At first we wanted to keep things easy as possible for mappers (i.e. place light here, done), but it's become obvious that you need more. We've planned (for a while now) to make it so you can edit some basic properties on placed lights (light cast distance for example), which should make the lights more usable in different places. 

tehace likes this

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shooter,

Thanks for the info. The whole real-time placement and preview already is great. I.e. angle lights and the like to see exactly how large the lit area is. Maybe its just not a good idea to "plaster" all the steps and lower wall edges with those nifty small lights... and how I wish I could get away with it... :ph34r:

 

As was suggested by several of the devs... using the skybox as primary light source is strongly recommended.

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oh yeah I should say that those didnt cast shadows on player models not that they're not 'dynamic' therefore I found those to be less performance heavy.

 

It would be great to have at least some control over the light sources at least its intensity like we have with the pointlight.

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  • apparently ledges are retarded. I removed all level differences that occurred on the 'ground' level so there are none that you cant just hop in. It opens the movement on that level significantly. 
  • item balancing: YA has gone into one of the corridors, spreading it out as it was too close to RA.
  • RG is now on the other side of the teleport target not direcly in front of it so you at least have to jump to get it.
  • second YA have gone on the side in the 'mh' room.
  • adjusted several spawn points due to items adjustments.

link/name stays the same I have the old version saved as thcdm4a just in case :)

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updated version up

 

  • extending corridors from 128 to 160
  • jumppads have outer brushes so you dont fall into them if you misjudge your jumps ;p
  • YA put on the ground level
  • GA in the corridors
  • reduced health from 225 to 180

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