Jump to content
A. Benz

Top (max) 5 things, that you dislike the most about Reflex (05.01.2015)

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

keep in mind the devs are pretty much aware of most stuff ( i guess ), but what are your thoughts?

 

1. Spawn points

 

I don't think there's much explanation needed: they suck. Dueling can get very frustrating like that. I don't know what exactly newborn said, but i remember him saying something along the line that you won't respawn at the place you died. IF that's correct: it doesn't solve the current problem, which is:

 

You move around the map so fast, way too often you spawn too close to your enemy, which results in spawn raping. There's no justification for spawn-raping.

 

What i'd suggest: randomly spawn players, but avoid spawns the enemy has vision towards ..meaning: check if enemy could have vision on spawn ( not only in his line of sight, but also behind, above etc. ) -> if yes -> block spawn.

 

( 2. Netcode 

 

Getting worked on, new netcode feels awesome, except for the bugs )

 

3. Maps ...or..updating them

 

Guess no further explanation needed either. Updating maps is awful atm, steam workshop asap pls.

 

4. The LG (new netcode)

 

It's just way too strong imo. Good aimers will melt you down in no time. Also: what about letting the LG overheat after a while? Would punish bad aimers.

 

 

What bothers you the most?

 

Regards

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

•LG knockback, which is gonna be reworked when they work more on the knockback system in general.

 

•Ground accel is crazy high, W + ADADAD and stuff

 

•Stake isn't the starter weapon  ;)

 

•Plasma isn't a projectile

 

•The fact that "Regards" isn't in your forum signature  ;)  ;)  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- ramps (on list)

- lg / pg hitsplash (cant see shit when being hit)

- playersmoothing (on list)

- score hud always enabled in small in some corner

- some row in scoreboard which shows, how many matches u won in a row (for duel)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the things I don't like I know are being adressed.  The only thing that I really have a beef with, and that I haven't heard anything about lately is the stake gun role/balance. Still useless for the most part, even for movement as the pace of the game makes them slightly redundant, and map makers aren't adopting it. If it was up to me the rail gun would be removed in favor of stakes, but I doubt this is the direction the devs will go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's not much to dislike about the game, only things I don't like are within the community.

 

1. Newcomers who complain about spawn killing and demand bizarre casual-friendly features to prevent it.

2. Newcomers who complain about skill and demand nerfing as result.

3. Self-proclaimed genre experts, ones with innovative demands and narrow-minded demands alike.

4. The decision to not support fullbright models.

5. Aerowalk haters. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's not much to dislike about the game, only things I don't like are within the community.

 

1. Newcomers who complain about spawn killing and demand bizarre casual-friendly features to prevent it.

2. Newcomers who complain about skill and demand nerfing as result.

3. Self-proclaimed genre experts, ones with innovative demands and narrow-minded demands alike.

4. The decision to not support fullbright models.

5. Aerowalk haters. 

 

How to be passive-aggressive by Smileycythe. Now as eBook.

 

How is spawn killing any fun or competitive? Would love to hear any reasonable argument to justify spawn killing.

 

If you refer to the LG nerf with 2. you clearly read what you want to read. The fact the LG is overpowered atm simply stands. Ask hal_9000 ...guess he isn't a newcomer, right? Most people playing b30 will tell you the same: the LG is too strong. ( newborn already nerfed it afaik ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How to be passive-aggressive by Smileycythe. Now as eBook.

 

How is spawn killing any fun or competitive? Would love to hear any reasonable argument to justify spawn killing.

 

If you refer to the LG nerf with 2. you clearly read what you want to read. The fact the LG is overpowered atm simply stands. Ask hal_9000 ...guess he isn't a newcomer, right? Most people playing b30 will tell you the same: the LG is too strong. ( newborn already nerfed it afaik ).

Knowing the spawn points and prefiring them is important to get kills while you're in lead. Tell me Benz how are going to get in lead again if you're 10 kills down? If there was no "spawnkilling" and you had to fight the enemy as strong as you everytime the game would be pretty much lost. Have you even played proper duels in cpma or reflex?

 

And I understand smileycythes viewpoint. I mean there are guys who have played cpma for 5-10 years and usually with and against the top players in cpma. They understand the mechanics and how each game mode (duel, ctf, tdm), armor systems and each weapon work and what's their function. Then there are the "self proclaimed" expers who haven't played duels, ctf nor tdm in high tier. They play one duel and jump around one game and come making suggestions how to improve the game based on their very little knowledge of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Knowing the spawn points and prefiring them is important to get kills while you're in lead. Tell me Benz how are going to get in lead again if you're 10 kills down? If there was no "spawnkilling" and you had to fight the enemy as strong as you everytime the game would be pretty much lost. Have you even played proper duels in cpma or reflex?

 

If you are 10 kills down with a proper spawn system ...that means those 10 kills are 10 kills and not 3 kills and 7 spawn kills ..then you clearly don't deserve to get in lead. If it's 10-0 without spawn kills and you get back 10-10 without spawn kills..then you might deserve that lead.

 

"as strong as you are" ..when spawning? What? First he'd have to pick up some items, don't you think?

 

Not to mention that IF you are low hp/armor and someone spawns right in your face by luck, he will just 1 shot you with the burst gun. That's not very competitive either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing, the spawn system involving a random element. Not talking about making it easier or harder to spawn kill, I just think that given a certain course of actions the outcome should be determined, even if very hard to predict. Otherwise one may argue that not only skill had had an effect on the final outcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- netcode ( i know b30 will fix it, but i dont have b30 yet so im judging b29 )

 

- no brightmodels / picmip

 

- chaingun is basically the LG-lite at medium range and at long range, its a waste to use when you have railgun. Instead of trying to fit two roles that are already occupied that weapon slot could be used on something new 

 

- stake could be quite a bit faster, or diffrent, right now in combat it's like a crummy version of the rail. i would like seeing a very fast version of stake replacing rail since right now those two weapons are far too similar.

 

cant really think of anything else. its really just the redundancy of some of the guns that i think are some pretty big design flaws at this stage, hopefully after netcode/ui we can see some changes with the weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spannzer said:

 

"•Ground accel is crazy high, W + ADADAD and stuff"

 

I'm loving the accel, as well as faster walking speed and faster changing of directions speed, say when dodging LG from left to right.

 

My quibbles:

Net feel

GUI

Bots

 

Edit:  Corrected quote

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm loving the accel, as well as faster walking speed and faster changing of directions speed, say when dodging LG from left to right.

 

 

im sorry, but i dont understand what in my post this is a response too. i have not mentioned player physics anywhere, so its a confusing reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is spawn killing any fun or competitive? Would love to hear any reasonable argument to justify spawn killing.

 

If you are 10 kills down with a proper spawn system ...that means those 10 kills are 10 kills and not 3 kills and 7 spawn kills ..then you clearly don't deserve to get in lead. If it's 10-0 without spawn kills and you get back 10-10 without spawn kills..then you might deserve that lead.

Spawn raping is just part of the game, mkay?

 

 

Not to mention that IF you are low hp/armor and someone spawns right in your face by luck, he will just 1 shot you with the burst gun. That's not very competitive either.

Random occasional bad luck is better than predictable spawns or any kind of information where the player will/won't spawn, random spawns is just simply the best way to make spawn killing difficult because you can't prepare for it. Newborn mentioned once "random, but not twice on the same spawn", and in my opinion that would be win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Netcode, this is being addressed.

 

2. Ramps, they just don't work properly.

 

3. Random spawns.

 

4. Movement when exiting a teleporter.

 

5. Ground acceleration is too AD-AD promoting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5. Ground acceleration is too AD-AD promoting.

Strafe jumping is still the dominant movement mechanic for speed though. If something I'm glad the game supports if not precisely, but just a bit of the QW style movement. Wall strafing is even easier, but that's easily limited by geometry. A video demonstration of "AD-AD", wallstrafe and strafe jumping below.

 

 

edit: OH, you meant ground acceleration, well fuck you then. I don't disagree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Spawn points

2. Netcode 

3. Maps ...or..updating them

4. The LG (new netcode)

1. Will be biased random -- you're more likely to respawn at the points further away from where you died, but you can spawn at any of them.

2. Working on it obviously, but its a huge job and one of the most complex parts of the game. You're going to need to be patient.

3. Workshop integration is planned for (probably) the version after the UI update.

4. Ion Cannon (seriously, start using our names) was known to be overpowered since forever, it was just left that way so that it wasn't entirely useless with the old netcode. It's already been fixed for the next update (both in damage and knockback). 

 

1. LG knockback, which is gonna be reworked when they work more on the knockback system in general.

2. Ground accel is crazy high, W + ADADAD and stuff

3. Stake isn't the starter weapon  ;)

4. Plasma isn't a projectile

1. Knockback has already been lowered for the next version but its just a temporary fix. Until the new knockback system is done, it's not something I'm going to be trying to tweak to perfection because its either a) impossible to get the behaviour I want with the current system or B) just going to break again as soon as we redo KB.

2. Known and will be tweaked at some point (possibly the next version).

3. It might be at some point but it comes down to testing and tweaking. There's some other gameplay stuff I want to do first.

4. It will probably be a projectile again at some point. It was changed to hitscan when I was looking at replacing Bolt with Stake since it meant there was no long range finishers.

 

1. ramps (on list)

2. lg / pg hitsplash (cant see shit when being hit)

3. playersmoothing (on list)

4. score hud always enabled in small in some corner

5. some row in scoreboard which shows, how many matches u won in a row (for duel)

 

1. Top of the "fix up some movement stuff" list but we haven't set a date to do that yet.

2. This will probably be fixed in the next couple of hours.

3. In-progress

4. This has always been part of the HUD design, we just haven't implemented it yet. The plan is that you'll have something on the HUD saying +8 or -3 if you're winning by 8 or losing by 3 (better for quickly glancing at than a small scoreboard). Will probably be done during the big UI rewrite.

5. We could add something like that.

Most of the things I don't like I know are being adressed.  The only thing that I really have a beef with, and that I haven't heard anything about lately is the stake gun role/balance. Still useless for the most part, even for movement as the pace of the game makes them slightly redundant, and map makers aren't adopting it. If it was up to me the rail gun would be removed in favor of stakes, but I doubt this is the direction the devs will go.

Originally, the stake gun WAS a replacement for the bolt rifle but it just didn't play well. The useful ranges and roles of it ended being pretty close to rockets. So, the current problem is "Why stake when you can bolt?" and if you remove the bolt it immediately becomes "Why bolt when you can rocket?". We'll find a suitable role for stake or we'll remove it (probably adding the stake jumps to the BR instead). I'm not going to be making those kinds of decisions until the core game is more complete though as things like the netcode update could easily change the usefulness of the Stakes.

 

1. Stake could be quite a bit faster, or diffrent, right now in combat it's like a crummy version of the rail. i would like seeing a very fast version of stake replacing rail since right now those two weapons are far too similar.

 

2. cant really think of anything else. its really just the redundancy of some of the guns that i think are some pretty big design flaws at this stage, hopefully after netcode/ui we can see some changes with the weapons.

1. Stake actually CANT be quite a bit faster -- it's already pushing the limits of how fast projectiles can go and those problems are getting more obvious with the updated netcode (mainly that you don't see the stake until its halfway across the room, because it travels a very long way before the server manages to tell you it exists).

2. Well, you're not going to see any weapon changes before that because netcode changes everything ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Ramps.

 

2. Player models.

 

3. The player models are bad.

 

4. There are no fullbright player models.

 

5. Player models.

 

The outline doesn't help. I watch gameplay and the enemy model always looks like a shadow man who's been dipped in strawberry syrup or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Need fullbright skins. Current enemy models are very hard to hit in comparison to quake's keel.

 

2. Need better sounds (hitbeeps, screams etc). Current ones are hard to hear/distinguish between.

 

3. Knockback from IC and visual effect on getting hit from both IC and CG (or whatever that plasma stand-in is) is ridiculous.

 

4. Zoom. With some fiddling I can get a toggle zoom working but I'd prefer an easier way to do it as well as a hold to zoom option, not to mention properly scaling sens whilst zoomed.

 

5. Timer needs to count up :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What the hell is up with the demand for fullbright models. I'm fucking colorblind and i have no problems seeing enemy models. Just force the enemy color to yellow and you will be fine.

Regarding the spawns, spawnkilling was part of cpma and was one of the reasons it was so fast. You get spawnkilled and in turn you get to spawnkill when you are in control, deal with it. Predicting spawns is part of the fun, i wouldn't want completely random spawns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Stake actually CANT be quite a bit faster -- it's already pushing the limits of how fast projectiles can go and those problems are getting more obvious with the updated netcode (mainly that you don't see the stake until its halfway across the room, because it travels a very long way before the server manages to tell you it exists).

 

Why is the model of the projectile server side? Since both the client and the server can do that calculation, the only thing the client has to know from the server is if the stake hits a player and where on the brush the stake lands. If the client displays the stake going through the air, the only thing that a high ping is going to do is show the stake going through someone (and possibly the world) before the hit sound and such comes up after the cue from the server.

 

Also, any comment on the chaingun? I think the netcode is just going to amplify the issues I think it has, and im wondering what your plans are for it  :ph34r:

 

1. Forum doesn't have a function that allows me to downvote people who want the game to be quake.

 

Instead, the forum has a function that requires people to explain why they dislike someones ideas, and why their other ideas are better instead of just attaching a poll to every comment and allowing people to take a stance without justifying it or explaining what should happen instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×