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0.30.x - New! Improved! Netcode!

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CPU loads are generally higher than they were in 0.29.0 since the server has a lot more work to do with the new netcode. There was a bug that was causing higher CPU usage that has been fixed in 0.30.4 so make sure you're up to date.

 

Good deal, and to be honest I think the server itself was due for a restart. I updated and then restarted and things seemed to be pretty normal looking before I left for work. Will check and see what's what when I get home. Thanks! 

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is it really that hard? just subtract. if you can add you can subtract. 

 

Well maybe I dont wanne ruin my quake live timing abilities by having to do the timing the other way around. I do play reflex duels like it is now so it's no dealbreaker but why cant there just be a goddamn command to make the clock count upwards if people want that? WHY? WHY? WHY?

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Well maybe I dont wanne ruin my quake live timing abilities by having to do the timing the other way around. I do play reflex duels like it is now so it's no dealbreaker but why cant there just be a goddamn command to make the clock count upwards if people want that? WHY? WHY? WHY?

Here's another horror scenario for you. The clock might not display the seconds anymore soon! Because that's how it is in CPMA and it's good like that. If i wanted to play add and subtract i'd go to elementary school.

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Here's another horror scenario for you. The clock might not display the seconds anymore soon! Because that's how it is in CPMA and it's good like that. If i wanted to play add and subtract i'd go to elementary school.

 

and if you wanted to shoot things you'd go to a firing range...so why are you here? 

 

I'll never understand why people get so emotional about the clock. I think CPM'ers just don't want people to time items. I don't get it. Years and years of seeing cpm and talking to players, everyone is arrogant and egotistical when it comes to the clock. Like they're better than other people because they don't need to time. or timing is a 'nerd' thing. 

 

why is everyone so butthurt about getting a clock. if you don't time, it literally doesn't affect you. no one is making you time, no one is telling you to time. just because the clock is there doesn't mean you have to use it. and just because it's there, doesn't mean someone else will beat you just because they can time items. 

 

people duel and time items to the second and people act like it's the nerdiest, lamest thing you can do. why is there such a negative connotation attached to timing an item to the second. the mega already has an advantage to the person who picked it up (they know exactly when they are 100hp or less) so why is it such a big deal for someone to time a red? 

 

I just hear 'that's how it's been' or 'that's the way the game is', when in reality I think it's a fear and paranoia of players and their frame of reference. they've had cpm for so long, unmodified for a long time. I can see why people don't want things to change or change themselves. It feels like they think if a timer is added they will never get a red or lose against players they would normally beat just because their opponent is timing.

 

it's like people think timing is some skill-less, useless, meaningless method of information. it's not easy timing multiple items to the second and focusing as much as you can on your opponent. yet people act like it's nothing and it deserves no praise or attention. 

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and if you wanted to shoot things you'd go to a firing range...so why are you here? 

 

I'll never understand why people get so emotional about the clock. I think CPM'ers just don't want people to time items. I don't get it. Years and years of seeing cpm and talking to players, everyone is arrogant and egotistical when it comes to the clock. Like they're better than other people because they don't need to time. or timing is a 'nerd' thing. 

 

why is everyone so butthurt about getting a clock. if you don't time, it literally doesn't affect you. no one is making you time, no one is telling you to time. just because the clock is there doesn't mean you have to use it. and just because it's there, doesn't mean someone else will beat you just because they can time items. 

 

people duel and time items to the second and people act like it's the nerdiest, lamest thing you can do. why is there such a negative connotation attached to timing an item to the second. the mega already has an advantage to the person who picked it up (they know exactly when they are 100hp or less) so why is it such a big deal for someone to time a red? 

 

I just hear 'that's how it's been' or 'that's the way the game is', when in reality I think it's a fear and paranoia of players and their frame of reference. they've had cpm for so long, unmodified for a long time. I can see why people don't want things to change or change themselves. It feels like they think if a timer is added they will never get a red or lose against players they would normally beat just because their opponent is timing.

 

it's like people think timing is some skill-less, useless, meaningless method of information. it's not easy timing multiple items to the second and focusing as much as you can on your opponent. yet people act like it's nothing and it deserves no praise or attention. 

 

It's because we don't want the game to be about focusing on adding up times, it makes the gameplay slower. The more time people spend calculating the exact spawn time of an item the less they can focus on moving around and looking for engagements. You are supposed to learn timings by heart. Try getting new people into the game by telling them that one of the most important aspects of the game is to calculate spawn times, i bet that will resonate well.

If you want to make the game slow and boring so badly just put a clock on your desk. Having no clock in the game literally doesn't affect you.

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It's because we don't want the game to be about focusing on adding up times, it makes the gameplay slower. The more time people spend calculating the exact spawn time of an item the less they can focus on moving around and looking for engagements. 

 

are you joking? it doesn't make the gameplay slower, that's a bs claim with no evidence. there's tons of quake pros that timed by feel, you're telling me those players were faster against those who timed? that argument is complete garbage

 

you aren't supposed to learn anything by heart, it's entirely your choice. did this game suddenly use some Arena FPS Ten Commandments list I missed out on?

 

and yes, taking out the clock just means players put a real clock by the monitor. I've seen this tons of times. this is why having no timer doesn't really help, you can get a clock easily. 

 

"Having no clock in the game literally doesn't affect you."

 

yes it does, I time items to the second. this is the whole point. if you time by 'feel' and a timer is added, nothing changes. if you time by the second and there's no timer, you are at a disadvantage. this is the entire argument. all the CPMers never had a clock to begin with, you guys want to time by feel so go ahead, time by feel. this is why having a clock doesn't affect you. you now have the option to time, but you can still play the same. a player who times who plays CPM can't play the same, they have no timer. 

 

having a timer means people who want to go by 'feel' still can, and people who want to time can time. 

 

instead of these discussions actually going into technical aspects about information being given and taken in-game, it goes to a bullshit argument about 'this is how it's done' and 'if I wanted to add I'd go to school', instead of actually discussing the gameplay elements and arguing for or against them 

 

thanks for proving my point that cpmers are arrogant egotistical children when it comes to a timer discussion. 

 

 
"Try getting new people into the game by telling them that one of the most important aspects of the game is to calculate spawn times, i bet that will resonate well."
 
except it's not, it's movement. 
 
adding a timer to reflex doesn't make it slow and boring. changing seconds to XX won't suddenly make this game faster and hardcore. any argument against timing can be thrown out the window by talking to two quake pros. theres pros that time to the second and pros that don't. it's a complete personal preference. 

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CPU loads are generally higher than they were in 0.29.0 since the server has a lot more work to do with the new netcode. There was a bug that was causing higher CPU usage that has been fixed in 0.30.4 so make sure you're up to date.

 

So I had some free time at lunch today and checked the servers. It had crashed, which was the first time it had done so. I restarted it and will keep an eye on it tonight. 

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are you joking? it doesn't make the gameplay slower, that's a bs claim with no evidence. there's tons of quake pros that timed by feel, you're telling me those players were faster against those who timed? that argument is complete garbage

 

you aren't supposed to learn anything by heart, it's entirely your choice. did this game suddenly use some Arena FPS Ten Commandments list I missed out on?

 

and yes, taking out the clock just means players put a real clock by the monitor. I've seen this tons of times. this is why having no timer doesn't really help, you can get a clock easily. 

 

"Having no clock in the game literally doesn't affect you."

 

yes it does, I time items to the second. this is the whole point. if you time by 'feel' and a timer is added, nothing changes. if you time by the second and there's no timer, you are at a disadvantage. this is the entire argument. all the CPMers never had a clock to begin with, you guys want to time by feel so go ahead, time by feel. this is why having a clock doesn't affect you. you now have the option to time, but you can still play the same. a player who times who plays CPM can't play the same, they have no timer. 

 

having a timer means people who want to go by 'feel' still can, and people who want to time can time. 

 

instead of these discussions actually going into technical aspects about information being given and taken in-game, it goes to a bullshit argument about 'this is how it's done' and 'if I wanted to add I'd go to school', instead of actually discussing the gameplay elements and arguing for or against them 

 

thanks for proving my point that cpmers are arrogant egotistical children when it comes to a timer discussion. 

 

 
"Try getting new people into the game by telling them that one of the most important aspects of the game is to calculate spawn times, i bet that will resonate well."
 
except it's not, it's movement. 
 
adding a timer to reflex doesn't make it slow and boring. changing seconds to XX won't suddenly make this game faster and hardcore. any argument against timing can be thrown out the window by talking to two quake pros. theres pros that time to the second and pros that don't. it's a complete personal preference. 

 

So basically because you are saying it doesn't make the game slower that suddenly becomes the undisputable truth, oh right, some pro once confirmed it (just btw, i could ask quite a few 'pros' as well and they'd side with me) and of course the word of a pro is holy, much like the ten commandments (it's funny how these things work both ways, isn't it). I highly doubt you are able to time multiple items on the second without thinking about, that would defy biology. You are saying that the clock isn't one of the most important aspects of the game, but here you are, adamantly defending its place in the game and saying that you couldn't play without it. Seems like your entire game evolves around that little timer.

If your personal preferences are in the way of my desired gameplay then it is my good right to criticize your preferences. It's no different than someone demanding dashes in the game because they are essential to their movement and saying that people who don't want to use dashes could just go on not using them. Your freedom of choice argument can rationalize pretty much everything and make every gameplay related argument completely pointless. Some people like fast games, some people like slower games, you could argue for hours and still not find any common ground.

Also calling people arrogant egotistical children isn't exactly the best of manners when arguing, if your opinion is so much more superior to mine then it should be easy for you to dismantle (saying my argument is invalid because it's invalid isn't dismantling) my standpoint without having to resort to insults.

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To people arguing about timers, read this post by newborn.

 

 

How much information to give players is not an easy question and the reality is that it has no "right" answer. I've been kicking around a rant about it for the last few weeks but I still haven't gotten around to writing it all out. This might end up covering most of it.

 
Anyway, decisions about what information to show or hide are everywhere. It spans timers, respawn sounds, health readouts, damage sounds, pain sounds, combat text, low ammo beeps, team overlays, fullbrights and more. It's even a part of arguments about what information players should be able to deliberately hide like ambient sounds, effects and 99% of textures.
 
So, there's pressure from the scene that enemy models shouldn't just be clearly identifiable -- they should be fullbright green and completely unmissable. What was once a solution to brown models in brown levels with flat lighting has become the expected norm. 
 
We got asked repeatedly during early dev if the seconds were staying on the clock because people want second-accurate timing of items. I personally think that the element of uncertainty about timings actually makes for better gameplay -- that +/- 3 seconds of being camped somewhere vulnerable, giving the enemy time to gain a foothold etc -- but there's huge resistance to that from the scene.
 
Of course, if you went in the opposite direction and just gave people item timers on the HUD, that would be considered noobing the game up for noobs. 
 
So the "sweet spot" is apparently to use basic arithmetic and the game timer to track exact respawn times. 
 
The same problems arise with your "might as well have the other guy's hp/ap displayed on your hud" example. Plenty of other genres do exactly this but there's a good chance we'd be crucified for it. There would also be a ton of rage if we took out hit beeps and pain sounds that reflected enemy health. So the sweet spot there is "you're allowed to know, but only within a range of 40hp and only if you know what to listen for".
 
You can also say "other games do it" in the opposite direction with many modern shooters not even giving you a real value for your OWN health which again, we'd be crucified for.
 
And the people who would complain about HUD timers being a noobification of this system are correct because that method of item timing is extremely unintuitive. Very few players who are not experienced AFPS players will work out that strategy on their own. And that could be another reason why some people cling to it -- players will take any advantage they can get over other players.
 
On top of that, we start hitting contradictions. 
 
Using the game timer to calculate item respawns is a good thing according to some players. But using the damage numbers to calculate the enemies remaining health is a bad thing. They're both just math to gain information but one is a skill and one is a dirty trick.
 
As I said, ultimately there is no right answer. We could take a stand and hide a ton of this information and leave it up to the player to guess based on experience. We could directly expose more of this information and let players make informed decisions based on known values. Or we could just blindly inherit what has been established in previous games because it's the path of least resistance (and therefore the most sales).
 
Instead, I'm just going to do some private experimental builds to explore exactly what the gameplay impacts of these no info/all info systems are. 
 
We'll go with whatever parts play better.

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"So basically because you are saying it doesn't make the game slower that suddenly becomes the undisputable truth, oh right, some pro once confirmed it (just btw, i could ask quite a few 'pros' as well and they'd side with me) and of course the word of a pro is holy, much like the ten commandments (it's funny how these things work both ways, isn't it)."

 

you can't prove the game would be slower if a clock was there. that was the whole point. you can't argue the game would be slower if players can time. that was the whole reason I commented on it, because there's no way you can 100% with fact say it would slow down. it's called disproving bullshit. I brought up pros because they time BOTH ways. do you read? I said some pros time exactly and some time by feel. but both have access to the timer. the point is that just because the timer is there, doesn't mean it's used even at the highest level. many top quake pros timed by feel. many timed it exactly. it was a mental choice.

 

"I highly doubt you are able to time multiple items on the second without thinking about, that would defy biology. You are saying that the clock isn't one of the most important aspects of the game, but here you are, adamantly defending its place in the game and saying that you couldn't play without it. Seems like your entire game evolves around that little timer."

 

I never said I couldn't play without it. Can you seriously read or is it the comprehension part you struggle with? I said if players want to time multiple items at the cost of slightly less focus on their opponent/game, they can. And they do, lots of top quake players timed multiple items, some even timed important weapons against certain opponents or on specific maps. Also I am voicing an opinion since people don't want a timer. I can make the same bs argument back, what's wrong can't do basic math? it goes both ways.

 

"If your personal preferences are in the way of my desired gameplay then it is my good right to criticize your preferences. It's no different than someone demanding dashes in the game because they are essential to their movement and saying that people who don't want to use dashes could just go on not using them."

 

no one cares about your desired gameplay. and it is different than adding dashed, since dashed alter gameplay, and a timer does not. dashing is a physical mechanic, so obviously demanding it be in would be ridiculous based out of personal preference. this is a timer we're talking about. it's not a physical/mechanical gameplay element. 

 

"saying my argument is invalid because it's invalid isn't dismantling."

 

it was never true in the first place, that's the whole point.

 

the worst part is the feedback, a lot of CPM players are here and they LOOOOOVE no timer. so naturally I see a lot of 'no timer please' posts here, which makes sense. but when you ask them why, it's always the same answer. just like the one you gave before. "it's the way it's been". honestly no one has ever really given a solid argument against a timer. People act like timing is some super nerd/lame thing, that requires no skill and is a useless mechanic. why do we listen to such ignorant people? if you can't find the skill or understand the positive side of it, go find out for yourself instead of repeating an ignorant thought and acting like it doesn't exist.

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... and the beat goes on with balance arguments.  Same shit different year.

 

Great update.  Definitely smoother.  Can play Deflex strafe pads without odd lagging in some spots.  No more lag and random slowdown effect!  This update has helped maps play smoother.  I did notice some screen tearing horizontally through the middle as if I was running SLI.  I've never run SLI though.  Running 1920x1080 on a 750ti.  Haven't tried on 720p but bet that would play ridiculously smooth.  Definitely a great update.  From a mapping perspective this has helped even the largest of maps play just as smoothly as small maps.  Can't even explain how great that is not just for my map but the development and progress of the game.  This update has taken the game one step closer towards a beta.  Thank you and looking forward to more great updates.  You're doing excellent work.

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My final 2 cents about the timer.

 

In my opinion as long as there is a timer that also shows seconds there should be a command to make it count upwards. It's just bullying us to only let it count downwards and not upwards if the timer is there anyway. I dont see any reason for when there actually is a clock to not be able to make it count upwards.

 

If there would be no clock at all, this would be fine as well. Then the cpm'ers are happy and we vanilla quake duel players just put a clock on our screen ourselfs or a real clock besides the monitor and we can time and we are both happy (would look pretty hardcore, I would actually like it :) )

 

In regard to the gameplay aspect. Some people are just gifted with a very good aim and they can use this to their advantage, its just a free head start they get. Some people are gifted with being able to memorise things good without alot of effort, like timestamps of items. Timing is just a part of a persons personal strategy. One guy has a natural adventage cause of his aim and some other doesn't have the aim but can time well, so that makes the game more balanced and makes the game open for more diffirent people with different tactics. And I think this is fair and more fun.

 

Look at Agent for example in Quake Live. Currently one of the best duellers out there with an aim far below of the rest of the pro scene competition. He can time alot of items around the map to the second and that keeps him in the game, it's his strategy. I my eyes it would be unfair to rule out the people who have timing as part of their strategy. 

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Only reason i look at the clock is seeing how much longer i'm getting raped. I find it much more interesting to get a "feeling" for item timings ..than just simply counting. Imo that's more of a skill than something every 3rd grader can do. Just my opinion ..and i'm a noob.

 

But not having a clock ingame simply leads to people gluing clocks to their foreheads. In the end i don't see a reason for not having clocks with seconds ingame:

 

1. People that like doing math -> go ahead

2. People that like going by feel -> go ahead

 

Why would you wanna deny any of these playstyles? If someone likes calculating every item to the last seconds..go ahead? How does it affect you? In the end this game is about winning, or not? People will do everything that helps them ..not having a clock ingame wouldn't exactly help.

 

Regards

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you can't prove the game would be slower if a clock was there. that was the whole point. you can't argue the game would be slower if players can time. that was the whole reason I commented on it, because there's no way you can 100% with fact say it would slow down. it's called disproving bullshit. I brought up pros because they time BOTH ways. do you read? I said some pros time exactly and some time by feel. but both have access to the timer. the point is that just because the timer is there, doesn't mean it's used even at the highest level. many top quake pros timed by feel. many timed it exactly. it was a mental choice.

 

You are disproving what i say by saying that it's not true, that's not disproving anything. You have to dedicate mental resources to timing, hence you can't use those resources to keep up the speed. What's your counter argument to that other than 'my friends and i say that's not true'.

 

 

I never said I couldn't play without it. Can you seriously read or is it the comprehension part you struggle with? I said if players want to time multiple items at the cost of slightly less focus on their opponent/game, they can. And they do, lots of top quake players timed multiple items, some even timed important weapons against certain opponents or on specific maps. Also I am voicing an opinion since people don't want a timer. I can make the same bs argument back, what's wrong can't do basic math? it goes both ways. 

 

 

 

Yes you did. 

 

 

yes it does, I time items to the second. this is the whole point. if you time by 'feel' and a timer is added, nothing changes. if you time by the second and there's no timer, you are at a disadvantage. this is the entire argument. all the CPMers never had a clock to begin with, you guys want to time by feel so go ahead, time by feel. this is why having a clock doesn't affect you. you now have the option to time, but you can still play the same. a player who times who plays CPM can't play the same, they have no timer. 

tl;dr: I can't play properly without a timer.

According to you timing items is a skill, but now it's just simple math. Kind of the statement i made which started this argument.

 

 

no one cares about your desired gameplay. and it is different than adding dashed, since dashed alter gameplay, and a timer does not. dashing is a physical mechanic, so obviously demanding it be in would be ridiculous based out of personal preference. this is a timer we're talking about. it's not a physical/mechanical gameplay element. 

 

No one cares for my desired gameplay but everybody is supposed to care for your need for a timer? I've stated multiple times already that the timer does affect gameplay and other than saying it's not true and your QL pals agreeing with you you haven't done anything to disprove it.

So far all you've done is demand CPM players to deal with a compromise while you aren't willing to give up anything yourself. Iirc this game is based on the CPMA community, hence you should be the one accepting compromises, i.e. learn to play without a damn timer. It's not that hard.

The only way to actually make a compromise which gives you a timer and gives the cpma players the gameplay they desire is to add a 4-6s respawn time window in which the items randomly spawn. I'd be up for testing that.

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You are disproving what i say by saying that it's not true, that's not disproving anything. You have to dedicate mental resources to timing, hence you can't use those resources to keep up the speed. 

 

I don't understand. How exactly is that a problem for YOU, if HE can't keep up with speed or whatever that leads to him losing the game. If it's not leading to him losing the game... it's obv. a valid tactic/gameplay.... and in the end he WILL fucking glue a clock to his monitor to make sure he doesn't lose this advantage. Which.. in the end doesn't change the way he plays.

 

I honestly don't understand your reasoning at all. You say it leads to a slower gameplay etc. etc. .... so what? If it is, what makes people lose and they don't wanna improve ...so be it? If it is, what makes people win/get an edge ...they will find a way to abuse it anyways.

 

No matter how you look at it .... you can't prevent it and therefore your whole "gameplay" argument get's totally redundant.

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I don't understand. How exactly is that a problem for YOU, if HE can't keep up with speed or whatever that leads to him losing the game. If it's not leading to him losing the game... it's obv. a valid tactic/gameplay.... and in the end he WILL fucking glue a clock to his monitor to make sure he doesn't lose this advantage. Which.. in the end doesn't change the way he plays.

 

I honestly don't understand your reasoning at all. You say it leads to a slower gameplay etc. etc. .... so what? If it is, what makes people lose and they don't wanna improve ...so be it? If it is, what makes people win/get an edge ...they will find a way to abuse it anyways.

 

No matter how you look at it .... you can't prevent it and therefore your whole "gameplay" argument get's totally redundant.

Playing slow doesn't necessarily make you lose, there are several people in cpma who are successfully playing +back, it's just not fun for their opponent. If he wants to glue a clock to his monitor to not lose his advantage and keep playing his scripted match then that's very unfortunate, but at least the game didn't encourage it. Also read my last paragraph, that's the only way to find a middle ground in this scenario.

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I don't understand. How exactly is that a problem for YOU, if HE can't keep up with speed or whatever that leads to him losing the game. If it's not leading to him losing the game... it's obv. a valid tactic/gameplay.... and in the end he WILL fucking glue a clock to his monitor to make sure he doesn't lose this advantage. Which.. in the end doesn't change the way he plays.

 

I honestly don't understand your reasoning at all. You say it leads to a slower gameplay etc. etc. .... so what? If it is, what makes people lose and they don't wanna improve ...so be it? If it is, what makes people win/get an edge ...they will find a way to abuse it anyways.

 

No matter how you look at it .... you can't prevent it and therefore your whole "gameplay" argument get's totally redundant.

 

he can't prove this statement, it's bullshit. people don't play SLOWER when they time, there's no truth to it. it's a bogus claim with nothing supported by it. 

 

 

Playing slow doesn't necessarily make you lose, there are several people in cpma who are successfully playing +back, it's just not fun for their opponent. If he wants to glue a clock to his monitor to not lose his advantage and keep playing his scripted match then that's very unfortunate, but at least the game didn't encourage it. Also read my last paragraph, that's the only way to find a middle ground in this scenario.

 

once again, the focus is all on you. you're clearly self-centered about the topic, all your replies have you tlaking about yourself and what's good for you. no one cares. look at this bullshit you wrote, "it's just not fun for their opponent". yeah, try playing people way above your skill ceiling or playing players who abuse certain mechanics. is that fun? no, but do we remove it because of that? of course not. 

 

scripted match? sorry but you sound so extremely butthurt about a timer. you sound like every bitter cpm-er who can't handle the idea of a player actually doing math to know when an item comes up. 

 

 

You are disproving what i say by saying that it's not true, that's not disproving anything. You have to dedicate mental resources to timing, hence you can't use those resources to keep up the speed. What's your counter argument to that other than 'my friends and i say that's not true'.

 

you never proved your point in the first place, it was false and not true, you didn't provide any evidence. so no, I'm not some idiot for calling out your bullshit, you never proved it in the first place. 

 

 

No one cares for my desired gameplay but everybody is supposed to care for your need for a timer? I've stated multiple times already that the timer does affect gameplay and other than saying it's not true and your QL pals agreeing with you you haven't done anything to disprove it.

 

you can say whatever you want, that doesn't make it true. You never proved it in the first place idiot, stop acting like you're preaching the word of god. you said a bunch of horse shit and I told you it's not true. adding a timer slows down gameplay? prove it. I'm not the one who made that claim, you did.

 

So far all you've done is demand CPM players to deal with a compromise while you aren't willing to give up anything yourself. Iirc this game is based on the CPMA community, hence you should be the one accepting compromises, i.e. learn to play without a damn timer. It's not that hard.

 

once again, the "listen to me, listen to us" mentality. yeah, screw the actual discussion and talking points about gameplay mechanics, nah, screw all that, let's only take input from the people who played a dead game for years and years and when others challenge it, we just tell them 'that's the way it's been'. 

 

like I said you've argued nothing. you proved you're a sissy that thinks some magical gameplay fairy will slow down your precious golden game when a fucking timer is added to the game.

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Playing slow doesn't necessarily make you lose, there are several people in cpma who are successfully playing +back, it's just not fun for their opponent. If he wants to glue a clock to his monitor to not lose his advantage and keep playing his scripted match then that's very unfortunate, but at least the game didn't encourage it. Also read my last paragraph, that's the only way to find a middle ground in this scenario.

 

Would be interesting how such a random timer impacts the gameplay. Although i can't really imagine it would do so in a good way tbh. It's like ...."hey, you have good timing? here have some random extra seconds so you can just sit around...".

 

"It's just not fun for their opponent" ..... some people will always do everything to win. A certain gameplay style, unfair mechanics, hacks ..etc. etc.. In the end: if someone is happy playing with that style ....i don't think anyone has the right to deny it to him, just because one doesn't like it.

 

Also ..the game isn't exactly encouraging this playstyle either, just because there are seconds on the clock. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here a bit. It's not like you get item timers with exact seconds remaining on your HUD.

 

If someone has fun calculating the exact timings for every item and keeping track of it the whole game.... i'm honestly not sure why anyone shouldn't be ok with it. You have your style, someone else has another style. DENYING a style .... doesn't sound very smart to me. Whether you like it or not.

 

 

 

 

EDIT to both of you: your discussion isn't leading anywhere productive and newborn is very well aware of this kinda stuff, so namecalling etc. isn't exactly helping. Too many emotions involved in here i think ....that's never a good basis for productive discussion. 

 

I trust the devs to make the correct call on timers. You should, too.

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Would be interesting how such a random timer impacts the gameplay. Although i can't really imagine it would do so in a good way tbh. It's like ...."hey, you have good timing? here have some random extra seconds so you can just sit around...".

 

"It's just not fun for their opponent" ..... some people will always do everything to win. A certain gameplay style, unfair mechanics, hacks ..etc. etc.. In the end: if someone is happy playing with that style ....i don't think anyone has the right to deny it to him, just because one doesn't like it.

 

Also ..the game isn't exactly encouraging this playstyle either, just because there are seconds on the clock. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here a bit. It's not like you get item timers with exact seconds remaining on your HUD.

 

If someone has fun calculating the exact timings for every item and keeping track of it the whole game.... i'm honestly not sure why anyone shouldn't be ok with it. You have your style, someone else has another style. DENYING a style .... doesn't sound very smart to me. Whether you like it or not.

 

this is exactly my point, having a timer literally changes nothing for people who don't time. they can play the same and nothing changes for them. the only difference is now they can play against players who have the ability of timing items, which I don't see as a bad thing. 

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he can't prove this statement, it's bullshit. people don't play SLOWER when they time, there's no truth to it. it's a bogus claim with nothing supported by it. 

 

 

 

once again, the focus is all on you. you're clearly self-centered about the topic, all your replies have you tlaking about yourself and what's good for you. no one cares. look at this bullshit you wrote, "it's just not fun for their opponent". yeah, try playing people way above your skill ceiling or playing players who abuse certain mechanics. is that fun? no, but do we remove it because of that? of course not. 

 

scripted match? sorry but you sound so extremely butthurt about a timer. you sound like every bitter cpm-er who can't handle the idea of a player actually doing math to know when an item comes up. 

 

 

 

you never proved your point in the first place, it was false and not true, you didn't provide any evidence. so no, I'm not some idiot for calling out your bullshit, you never proved it in the first place. 

 

 

 

you can say whatever you want, that doesn't make it true. You never proved it in the first place idiot, stop acting like you're preaching the word of god. you said a bunch of horse shit and I told you it's not true. adding a timer slows down gameplay? prove it. I'm not the one who made that claim, you did.

 

 

once again, the "listen to me, listen to us" mentality. yeah, screw the actual discussion and talking points about gameplay mechanics, nah, screw all that, let's only take input from the people who played a dead game for years and years and when others challenge it, we just tell them 'that's the way it's been'. 

 

like I said you've argued nothing. you proved you're a sissy that thinks some magical gameplay fairy will slow down your precious golden game when a fucking timer is added to the game.

In pretty much every reply i made i stated that to time items you have to focus on them, hence you can focus less on other stuff (like moving around quickly for example), but apparently that doesn't support my claim. Or maybe you just missed it three times.

So when i say that i and people like me dislike the timer because it puts too much focus on timing items that's self-centered and just some stupid opinion which can be disregarded but when it's you and your QL friends demanding it that's meaningful discussion and represents basically every arena FPS player in the world. If you are happy everybody else has to be happy right?

When it comes to butthurt, i mean really, you call me a sissy and an idiot while i haven't used a single insult in this entire discussion, i even tried to find common ground in my last reply but apparently you aren't willing to even get one step out of your comfort zone to find a solution, you want it your way, without any compromise (the word 'self-centered' springs to mind).

I don't give a flying fuck about the timer, i just don't want to play a game where timing items comes before everything else and the timer would cause that in this scenario. If you find a way to make item timing have less of an impact on the game without losing the timer you can keep the damn thing.

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In pretty much every reply i made i stated that to time items you have to focus on them, hence you can focus less on other stuff (like moving around quickly for example), but apparently that doesn't support my claim. Or maybe you just missed it three times.

just because you say it doesn't mean it's true. timing items make you focus less on moving around quickly? awesome blanket statement that has no truth or validity to it. maybe that applies for *you*, but other people can play just the same timing to the second. you're making a giant assumption with nothing to back it up. you can repeat it all you want, that doesn't make it true. 

 

 

I don't give a flying fuck about the timer, i just don't want to play a game where timing items comes before everything else and the timer would cause that in this scenario. 

 

no one said timing comes before anything. no one. and it doesn't. movement and aim come first. the game wouldn't be about timing. it's just an option for knowing when items respawn. you're acting like the movement and game mechanics are nullified just because I know exactly when an item respawns.  

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... i just don't want to play a game where timing items comes before everything else....

 

Ok, now this is getting a bit ridiculous. A game obv. has different important mechanics. Movement, aim, item control, whatever. Some people have better aim, some movement..and some timing. What you want is denying people to develope skill in a certain area, just because YOU don't like it or YOU don't like how it affects gameplay.

 

Not to mention i can't really believe it affects gameplay too such an extent that it actually matters. It's not like people go... pickup item, stand because they have to calculate timing, keep moving again. That's just plain ridiculous :D

 

I mean ...the game has items, the items have timers. Obv they are a big factor. If someone wants to put more focus on a certain area of the gameplay, cuz he thinks he'll get an edge over you that way ..so be it? If you are a superior player...you will find a way to beat him. I really don't get the problem.

 

Sorry to say ...but this is bullshit deluxe.

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Ok, now this is getting a bit ridiculous. A game obv. has different important mechanics. Movement, aim, item control, whatever. Some people have better aim, some movement..and some timing. What you want is denying people to develope skill in a certain area, just because YOU don't like it or YOU don't like how it affects gameplay.

 

Sorry to say ...but this is bullshit deluxe.

I don't want to deny people developing a certain skill, i don't want that skill to become the most viable in the game. Yea that's what i want, what's wrong with that, there is no objective opinion when it comes to gameplay. So save that caps crap.

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I don't want to deny people developing a certain skill, i don't want that skill to become the most viable in the game. Yea that's what i want, what's wrong with that, there is no objective opinion when it comes to gameplay. So save that caps crap.

 

Most viable in the game? I'm pretty sure i got beaten by people although i got better item control ....pretty often .... because i can't move and i can't aim.

 

Now if 2 equally skilled players play each other...and one has better item control ....and that leads to him winning. Doesn't he deserve it? Or what?

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