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You are limiting player growth

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As much as the majority of us here know how to work a computer, and can find HTML based Server listings for Reflex that are easier to use in-terms of navigation. But a lot of people, the average Joe who sees it on the Steam store-front or hears about it through someone else is quickly turned away due to the low player count and user-interface, as simple as that. 

 

I understand there are "larger" issues at hand, but those larger issues are larger because they also usually require more implementation time. I'm just saying I just played Reflex for a couple hours against one guy and had a blast, I had fun like I haven't had playing video games in months and it was great. But you know what, I won't go back and and have more fun any time soon due to just how inconvenient/difficult it is to find actual players wanting to play with others in the U.S., during the time I'm able to play, sure there's a bunch of servers, primarily dead, and the ones that are filled are usually pre-made 1v1s of friends. 

 

So you know, just if the dev team could go pick up a few bottles of jack and have a drunk coding party and whip something together in a night or two to help people like me who have full time jobs/lives outside of video games and can't regularly keep up with every new site, new update, active servers/gamemodes/regions. 

 

Also, I'm not sure if it's been looked into and I know a lot of PC games stray away from it and go with the "Server Browser" option instead, but Match Making would be awesome I think for something like Reflex, ELO based with rankings perhaps? I started shooters with like Halo 2, and also played a lot of CS:GO so perhaps that's why I'd like that, but I again feel like it'd make things easier for newcomers and could help grow the playerbase. I just don't want it dying off like many similar games have.

 

Just my four and a half cents, toodles~

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If you've been reading the posts you'd know that the next/coming updates will include a new/updated UI. I'm looking forward to that myself. In addition, matchmaking, ladders, team games, et-al are all a part of the devs plans for the game. I think people forget that this game is pre-alpha and we are the lucky few to learn and grow with it.  :)

 

If your looking for people to play with i suggest you just go to the lowest ping server you can find and hang out there. People who are looking to play with other people normally don't go into an un-populated server, so if they see someone in a server they will click that one first. In addition, there are a-lot of people playing on private servers which don't show up in the server browser.

 

Lemme know what times your normally on and I'll play some games with you. Make some friends here to play with. It's not a snobby community like other FPS names I won't mention from Texas.  :o

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UI is the 3rd of the 3 big things we needed to fix after hitting EA. Netcode, Renderer scalability & UI. Once these huge tasks are all in, the game can really start picking up speed as the groundwork is in place.

 

The UI update is coming along very well. I'm actually half-way through building the server browser right now.

 

We have some exciting UI news upcoming (next couple days likely), I'd estimate the build will be out in ~2 weeks.

 

We do plan to do matchmaking done the line, although we need a decent UI first :)

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UI is the 3rd of the 3 big things we needed to fix after hitting EA. Netcode, Renderer scalability & UI. Once these huge tasks are all in, the game can really start picking up speed as the groundwork is in place.

 

The UI update is coming along very well. I'm actually half-way through building the server browser right now.

 

We have some exciting UI news upcoming (next couple days likely), I'd estimate the build will be out in ~2 weeks.

 

We do plan to do matchmaking done the line, although we need a decent UI first :)

 

Looks really clean, I like it!

 

As I mentioned on IRC, could you possibly add a country column in the front? Maybe stylised as a flag or something (a bit like syncore currently does it, although the flag would probably be enough).

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Please tell me the UI/HUD doesn't get stretched off place in lower resolutions

 

It doesn't. It's all designed to be scaled from tiny resolutions right up to 4K without any of the positioning getting screwed up or any loss of quality (except the loss of quality you obviously get with less pixels).

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UI is the 3rd of the 3 big things we needed to fix after hitting EA. Netcode, Renderer scalability & UI. Once these huge tasks are all in, the game can really start picking up speed as the groundwork is in place.

 

The UI update is coming along very well. I'm actually half-way through building the server browser right now.

 

We have some exciting UI news upcoming (next couple days likely), I'd estimate the build will be out in ~2 weeks.

 

We do plan to do matchmaking done the line, although we need a decent UI first :)

 

 Nice browser. Can it sort by more than one collumn? Like, first sort by gametype, then ping then player-number.

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UI is the 3rd of the 3 big things we needed to fix after hitting EA. Netcode, Renderer scalability & UI. Once these huge tasks are all in, the game can really start picking up speed as the groundwork is in place.

 

The UI update is coming along very well. I'm actually half-way through building the server browser right now.

 

We have some exciting UI news upcoming (next couple days likely), I'd estimate the build will be out in ~2 weeks.

 

We do plan to do matchmaking done the line, although we need a decent UI first :)

 

Looks great so far, definitely looking forward to seeing it in action.  :D  Hopefully the map editor gets some lovin' after that, some of the features you guys have mentioned having plans for in the near future would be immensely useful for my tinkering.

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I think that in the current stage of the game's development the stuff mentioned in the OP is pretty unimportant. However one thing me and my friend were discussing the other day was how Reflex is going to be marketed. Obviously the game will continue to be dead even afterr release if the advertising campaign is shit. The mistake many indie devs make is to think that the public will automatically flock to a good product, which is totally incorrect - look at Toxikk for example, the game is literally worse than a bag of retarded doorknobs but it managed to sell a lot of copies and has a fairly active community simply because the devs managed to make their marketing campaign memorable, albeit cheesey.

 

I realise that it is very early days but nonetheless I reckon the developers need to start coming up with ideas for a big marketing push to help get the game out there since that's really the point which will decide whether the game will grow and actually have a chance to bring arena shooters back to the spotlight, or if the game will become another CPMA clone with 20 people online at a time.

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I think that in the current stage of the game's development the stuff mentioned in the OP is pretty unimportant. However one thing me and my friend were discussing the other day was how Reflex is going to be marketed. Obviously the game will continue to be dead even afterr release if the advertising campaign is shit. The mistake many indie devs make is to think that the public will automatically flock to a good product, which is totally incorrect - look at Toxikk for example, the game is literally worse than a bag of retarded doorknobs but it managed to sell a lot of copies and has a fairly active community simply because the devs managed to make their marketing campaign memorable, albeit cheesey.

 

I realise that it is very early days but nonetheless I reckon the developers need to start coming up with ideas for a big marketing push to help get the game out there since that's really the point which will decide whether the game will grow and actually have a chance to bring arena shooters back to the spotlight, or if the game will become another CPMA clone with 20 people online at a time.

I hated you after your first couple sentences but then I began to agree, I haven't actually checked nor do I know how open the dev team? (not sure how many devs/all I've seen is shooter thus far) But if they're "open" with models and animations, 3D Sculpting, Rigging, and Animation are sorta my thing but I don't do game stuff, I have before, but I usually keep it to production and like media animation either it be it the on-screen models or animation plates/overlays for names/titles, or it being digital compositing merging 3D into the real world and making it look "real".

 

Anyways, I'd be happy to work on some stuff and perhaps give some personality? to the robots behind Reflex and their purpose. Even Arena shooters need some generic personality to get peoples' attention with.

 

EDIT: Also, Mr. Shooter your Server UI will be sort-able (such as by player count) like the current in-browser ones that are available, yes?

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I hated you after your first couple sentences but then I began to agree, I haven't actually checked nor do I know how open the dev team? (not sure how many devs/all I've seen is shooter thus far) But if they're "open" with models and animations, 3D Sculpting, Rigging, and Animation are sorta my thing but I don't do game stuff, I have before, but I usually keep it to production and like media animation either it be it the on-screen models or animation plates/overlays for names/titles, or it being digital com positing merging 3D into the real world and making it look "real".

 

Anyways, I'd be happy to work on some stuff and perhaps give some personality? to the robot behind Reflex and their purpose. Even Arena shooters need some generic personality to get peoples' attention with.

 

EDIT: Also, Mr. Shooter your Server UI will be sort-able (such as by player count) like the current in-browser ones that are available, yes?

 

Are you suggesting to help with speeding up the process to get closer to implimenting features that would help the longevity of the game? Admirable. I'd like to see what a dev says.

 

As for personality: Strange that I haven't thought about how the style of the game might affect bringing people in. Then again, the devs have shown off concept art that shows off a pretty cool look that I doubt they will deviate from. What is personality anyway? Does the Quake techno-gothic style not have personality because Quake is deeply ingrained in video games and we've seen variations of it anywhere? Regardless, I think it'll come down to execution. The devs seem to focus on very good execution so I think it'll be fine on that end.

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Are you suggesting to help with speeding up the process to get closer to implimenting features that would help the longevity of the game? Admirable. I'd like to see what a dev says.

 

As for personality: Strange that I haven't thought about how the style of the game might affect bringing people in. Then again, the devs have shown off concept art that shows off a pretty cool look that I doubt they will deviate from. What is personality anyway? Does the Quake techno-gothic style not have personality because Quake is deeply ingrained in video games and we've seen variations of it anywhere? Regardless, I think it'll come down to execution. The devs seem to focus on very good execution so I think it'll be fine on that end.

 

I'm actually really sorry because I didn't come here meaning to come off in any-particular way and I can't tell if what you're trying to say is being said with a positive or negative connotation. 

 

As for personality, I don't mean it in the sense like a preppy girl walking into a black and white 60s movie and going "this place is so drag, it needs more personality!" with the "i" in personality dotted with a heart but instead I mean it in the sense of creating characters with personalities that are placed in 'advertisement' almost which makes it seem so negative in our modern world where we all hat ads and metadata and the NSA. 

 

For example I was a HUGE fan of the Ratchet and Clank series, and they were very sorta "meta", self-reference and mocking in a kiddish art-styled manner but would often have un-noticed humor that the older audience may enjoy.

 

Perhaps it's just myself but I play reflex in-windowed mode so it doesn't take up the full/already low dimensions of my 1440x900 middle monitor, still a decent set-up none the less including the hardware in the PC but the thing outline even being pretty small which I believe is what it's striving for seems to take up too large of a percentage of the screen in proportion to the rest of the models. I'd offer the counter-approach of using varied colored models instead but I already know the counter-quake live argument many of you seem to be a fan of. But I'd instead like to think of it as the Halo 3 approach where team's are split up into red and blue (or another contrast color choosing if you'd like to be original, I'm quite the fan of orange myself) and for free for all mode everyone's given random colors sorta like multi-team in H3 had if anyone remembers that.  Again perhaps not, but some variation on that and it could work even better if Reflex implemented slight model variation. Not crazy amounts like custom everything, but pre-made armor unlocks like H3 had? Could be unlocked by achievements or from the start. But again I understand that is a very big thing to ask for, but throwing the idea out there none the less for those who've possibly never thought about it before) 

 

Oh real quick thing I wanted to point out, was the slight armor variations didn't actually vary enough for hitbox/model sizes to come into play so I don't want some of the most competitive players worried about that.

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[snip]

I didn't mean it in a positive or negative, just commenting in general.

 

Now I get what you mean by personality, sort of. I feel like you are talking about world-building?

 

As for your ideas about armor, I dunno what the devs plan but I think that customization would be thing because you could do that stuff in Quake 3. I like some things of what you are saying. If that kind of stuff is implimented though, there needs to be a way for competitive players to force all that stuff off.

 

The current market of games are relying heavily on customization and ultimately superficial things, but it's what people like so maybe it'l bring it players.

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I didn't mean it in a positive or negative, just commenting in general.

 

Now I get what you mean by personality, sort of. I feel like you are talking about world-building?

 

As for your ideas about armor, I dunno what the devs plan but I think that customization would be thing because you could do that stuff in Quake 3. I like some things of what you are saying. If that kind of stuff is implimented though, there needs to be a way for competitive players to force all that stuff off.

 

The current market of games are relying heavily on customization and ultimately superficial things, but it's what people like so maybe it'l bring it players.

Which I agree with, but I feel like I grew up in the middle of this whole market growing. And the competitive scene is something I also do care about greatly, for instance in Halo 3 the different armors were never a huge issue in e-sports scene because they weren't huge massive changes just small things like shoulder pads but I will note a lot of players did choose Spartan over Elite, and would often use the standard Master Chief helmet but I'm just saying small things like a custom emblem or something to be displayed on your robots shoulder isn't too crazy like how some other companies and games have went with in the recent years.

 

I believe like we as a society are collectively trying to better in a lot of situations like recognizing government secrecy and ties with big business and mass manipulation, to pot laws finally being re-vised. We as the gaming community went through our phase of getting bled to death like cow by corporate slaughthouses we called game developers who used false-advertisement and PR to sell their product instead of putting actual time and money into the game itself. And to add a game requires more than mechanics, it requires and little passion and soul from the devs and the community, once the game if it ever does get that big will reach critical mass and us open minded and innovate will be filtered out. I think this game can take the best of both world literally, and not bleed the community dry, whilst providing a product they care for and probably originated from earlier Arena Shooters which have somewhat died down, whilst taking advantage of this beautiful neon look I've come to love so much, the sounds themselves for some reason are the ones I think I'll remember for quite some time (jumping hydraulic sound for instance) like the fizzle of a plasma grenade from Halo 3, the start of a helicopter in DayZ, or hell even that bliss like noise of hitting body after body with chopper gunner pellets in MW2, and take some of the good customization bits without over-doing them trying basically advance the technology so quickly it creates draw backs and performance issues for the game itself (looking at the CoD games after black-ops and trying to make redundant details with excess layers only promoting the childish in the community to seek out racist and feminist humor/to offend others.) and can take all of that and possibly make something great. But it's what, just thought I'd throw out some ideas as I'd really love to spend days and days on Reflex like I used to on Halo 3 and such, times were different, politics and financial troubles didn't run my life. Reflex has given me some hope.

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Man, these forums are murdering my hands tonight. Anyway...
 

I think that in the current stage of the game's development the stuff mentioned in the OP is pretty unimportant. However one thing me and my friend were discussing the other day was how Reflex is going to be marketed. Obviously the game will continue to be dead even afterr release if the advertising campaign is shit. The mistake many indie devs make is to think that the public will automatically flock to a good product, which is totally incorrect - look at Toxikk for example, the game is literally worse than a bag of retarded doorknobs but it managed to sell a lot of copies and has a fairly active community simply because the devs managed to make their marketing campaign memorable, albeit cheesey.

 

I realise that it is very early days but nonetheless I reckon the developers need to start coming up with ideas for a big marketing push to help get the game out there since that's really the point which will decide whether the game will grow and actually have a chance to bring arena shooters back to the spotlight, or if the game will become another CPMA clone with 20 people online at a time.

 

We've generally got more players online than Toxikk does =/. We do have marketing plans though (or at the very least, plans to significantly increase our press coverage). For now, we're holding off on them because we don't want an influx of new players who are then immediately disappointed because there's no matchmaking so they keep losing 50-0, or they cant run it well, or its full of placeholder art or they can't work out how to bind keys in a config and there's no training so they don't know how to do all the crazy shit other people are doing.

 

So put simply, the game just isn't ready to be pushed that hard yet. As I'm sure we've all seen, you only get one chance with a lot of gamers -- if you screw that up, they're gone. An example that a lot of people around here will probably be familiar with is the somewhat tragic launch of Q4. On paper, it was largely a prettier Q3 and should have just captured all of those players instantly, but they completely misread the Q3 multiplayer scene and didn't implement basic features, had lackluster netcode etc. By the time mods like Q4Max came along and fixed those problems, the damage had been done.

 

That's not a situation we're looking to repeat, so for now we're focusing on core features for our core players. This is why a netcode overhaul was a huge priority, even with the low player counts. It's why the editor was available on day 1. It's why we took a month out to focus primarily on performance, because players want to run Reflex at 120fps (or more). It's why there hasn't been a huge focus on shoving more art into the game, because our core audience is used to picmip 10 anyway. And it's why our marketing and promotion has mainly focused on the core, existing AFPS scene -- it's what the game is ready for.

 

When it's ready for a larger scene, we'll be doing more to get the game to a larger audience.

 

I hated you after your first couple sentences but then I began to agree, I haven't actually checked nor do I know how open the dev team? (not sure how many devs/all I've seen is shooter thus far) But if they're "open" with models and animations, 3D Sculpting, Rigging, and Animation are sorta my thing but I don't do game stuff, I have before, but I usually keep it to production and like media animation either it be it the on-screen models or animation plates/overlays for names/titles, or it being digital compositing merging 3D into the real world and making it look "real".

 

Anyways, I'd be happy to work on some stuff and perhaps give some personality? to the robots behind Reflex and their purpose. Even Arena shooters need some generic personality to get peoples' attention with.

 

EDIT: Also, Mr. Shooter your Server UI will be sort-able (such as by player count) like the current in-browser ones that are available, yes?

 

I actually agree a lot on the "personality" thing and it's something that I've kept in mind during development. Game's definitely do have a personality. This is something Valve is exceptionally good at with games like TF2 and DotA2. Even Portal -- take out Glados and companion cubes and cake and the game goes from "one of the most loved games in the last decade" to "interesting puzzle game". Where Valve does "likable", other games try and focus on different traits, like CoD games doing everything they can to be "tough" with the realism and the swearing and the gritty, real-world, controversial settings.

 

It wasn't really easy to see in the concept art, but for that theme we were going to be looking towards skater/x-games style culture for personality since it shares similar traits to Reflex -- the underdog psuedo-sport, the desire for mastery, the appreciation for spectacle and the ones talented enough to deliver it etc. The art we're developing behind the scenes actually has a new style, but I'll be doing what I can to make sure it maintains a personality appropriate for our audience.

 

Anyway, that's enough about design stuff that 99% of people don't actually care about ;)

 

Oh, and as for the offer to help, we're keeping everything in-house at the moment. We're actually making good progress, we're just not demonstrating it publicly yet.

 

I'm actually really sorry because I didn't come here meaning to come off in any-particular way and I can't tell if what you're trying to say is being said with a positive or negative connotation. 

 

As for personality, I don't mean it in the sense like a preppy girl walking into a black and white 60s movie and going "this place is so drag, it needs more personality!" with the "i" in personality dotted with a heart but instead I mean it in the sense of creating characters with personalities that are placed in 'advertisement' almost which makes it seem so negative in our modern world where we all hat ads and metadata and the NSA. 

 

For example I was a HUGE fan of the Ratchet and Clank series, and they were very sorta "meta", self-reference and mocking in a kiddish art-styled manner but would often have un-noticed humor that the older audience may enjoy.

 

Perhaps it's just myself but I play reflex in-windowed mode so it doesn't take up the full/already low dimensions of my 1440x900 middle monitor, still a decent set-up none the less including the hardware in the PC but the thing outline even being pretty small which I believe is what it's striving for seems to take up too large of a percentage of the screen in proportion to the rest of the models. I'd offer the counter-approach of using varied colored models instead but I already know the counter-quake live argument many of you seem to be a fan of. But I'd instead like to think of it as the Halo 3 approach where team's are split up into red and blue (or another contrast color choosing if you'd like to be original, I'm quite the fan of orange myself) and for free for all mode everyone's given random colors sorta like multi-team in H3 had if anyone remembers that.  Again perhaps not, but some variation on that and it could work even better if Reflex implemented slight model variation. Not crazy amounts like custom everything, but pre-made armor unlocks like H3 had? Could be unlocked by achievements or from the start. But again I understand that is a very big thing to ask for, but throwing the idea out there none the less for those who've possibly never thought about it before) 

 

Oh real quick thing I wanted to point out, was the slight armor variations didn't actually vary enough for hitbox/model sizes to come into play so I don't want some of the most competitive players worried about that.

 

We're going to be taking a new approach to player visibility as more art goes in and it sounds like you'll approve of them. Until then, improvements to the outlines have been on todo list for a couple of months, we just havent found time yet.

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It wasn't really easy to see in the concept art, but for that theme we were going to be looking towards skater/x-games style culture for personality since it shares similar traits to Reflex -- the underdog psuedo-sport, the desire for mastery, the appreciation for spectacle and the ones talented enough to deliver it etc. The art we're developing behind the scenes actually has a new style, but I'll be doing what I can to make sure it maintains a personality appropriate for our audience.

 

Oh lord do I want a defrag game mode now where you have to tag walls at ridiculous speeds ala Jet Set Radio Future. Forget the new style I want my robot to have shades, and a boom box on its shoulder flying across maps being a hoodlum. 

 

On a slightly more serious note I think personality can sell a game alone. Like you said without glados and co Portal 2 would have been forgotten almost instantly. I really like what Reborn is doing with Eggbots at the moment. It's rubbing some arenaFPS fans up the wrong way but I really like the less than completely serious approach. If reflex could put together a really strong sense of personality you'd have people flocking to it and it would do a lot towards marketing itself. 

 

I see the project as coming along really nicely, the important bits are all there already, the knock back values need work but besides that for anyone who is invested in the style of game it's a very playable experience. The rest of the work can go towards making it easier to use and drawing in a wider demographic.

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snip

 

An actual response, well-thought out, and I agree on the stances. Alright fuck-it, Reflex has won me over with the gameplay and staff enough. I'll quietly be in the corner watching development for a bit, best of luck, seriously I wish you guys nothing but the best of luck as your success means more players, and with more players means some of them have to be worse than me, haha.

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snip.

Oh I just saw this ;_;

Sorry newborn, my post wasn't meant to sound like I know exactly what I'm doing as obviously I've never designed and developed a game before. If it came off like that then I'm sorry, I'm not as eloquent as the likes of Servelius. :)

So as a little background, I was on mumble with 6-7 other friends playing Reflex, and someone mentioned the marketing/advertising part of development so we had a pretty interesting discussion regarding that in Reflex. My post was meant to be more of a kind of heads up just in case you guys hadn't considered how you're going to sell the game, but I didn't mean to imply that you guys hadn't thought about that already.

Anyway, looking forward to the next update, UI changes look mint.

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Sorry newborn, my post wasn't meant to sound like I know exactly what I'm doing as obviously I've never designed and developed a game before. If it came off like that then I'm sorry, I'm not as eloquent as the likes of Servelius. :)

 

I didn't take it as being like that. I just write a lot of stuff at 3AM when I'm trying to get to bed ;). All your concerns were completely valid.

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It wasn't really easy to see in the concept art, but for that theme we were going to be looking towards skater/x-games style culture for personality since it shares similar traits to Reflex -- the underdog psuedo-sport, the desire for mastery, the appreciation for spectacle and the ones talented enough to deliver it etc. The art we're developing behind the scenes actually has a new style, but I'll be doing what I can to make sure it maintains a personality appropriate for our audience.

 

Anyway, that's enough about design stuff that 99% of people don't actually care about ;)

 

I don't think the Sports-Theme really offers "personality". You should rather try to bring more diversity to your game. For example you should try to make maps that focus on certain topics. for example one space map with space-ships and low-grav areas. Another map with snow environments, teleporters, caves and some buildings. Then some map with aztec-style and some cool out-of-map details. etc. each official map should have an individual style and a cool topic. When you add Bot-Matches, you should have characters that fit to the maps that are played on. Atm to me it seems like you really don't care about art at all. For me and some of my friends it's a really big deal and I think you should think about it. Also.. As I stated already.. I think config-tweaking and eliminating game art via picmip and low LOD-models is not a good way to design a game. I think games should be fun.. if you play to win or not. They should be fun for the good players aswell as for the bad players... And they should look good and have some typical charme. Config-Tweaking and minimalistic graphics give advantages to players and pretty much force everyone to play the game with low graphics.

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