Jump to content
newborn

New weapon concepts!

Recommended Posts

Hey newborn! Thanks for chiming in.

Please do not take any of my criticism personally, I think you are really cool guys, with a game that has a great potential. This is why I'm afraid that this decision will fuck it up :) If you need a professional game designer (for asset creation / concept art, whatever) why don't you set up a new kickstarter? Given the goal is realistic, your fans (me included) will deliver. This current direction seems to me like an eco-friendly route that does not need a lot of imagination, just some common objects thrown together in order to achieve something 'unique'. But it is not even unique. Maybe it was 15 years ago. As I have said before, this direction might still work in a AAA production, where the engine/artists/budget can handle a shitload of objects and greebles, but it will look out of place in Reflex. You just cannot throw in a few pre-made objects into a basic map shell and call it teslapunk or whatever. This is a style that needs a LOT of quality detail and effects, level design, etc that just wont happen in Reflex. If I were you I would concentrate all my resources into advancing the engine along with the editor. See what the users come up with, and take it from there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey newborn! Thanks for chiming in.

Please do not take any of my criticism personally, I think you are really cool guys, with a game that has a great potential. This is why I'm afraid that this decision will fuck it up :) If you need a professional game designer (for asset creation / concept art, whatever) why don't you set up a new kickstarter? Given the goal is realistic, your fans (me included) will deliver. This current direction seems to me like an eco-friendly route that does not need a lot of imagination, just some common objects thrown together in order to achieve something 'unique'. But it is not even unique. Maybe it was 15 years ago. As I have said before, this direction might still work in a AAA production, where the engine/artists/budget can handle a shitload of objects and greebles, but it will look out of place in Reflex. You just cannot throw in a few pre-made objects into a basic map shell and call it teslapunk or whatever. This is a style that needs a LOT of quality detail and effects, level design, etc that just wont happen in Reflex. If I were you I would concentrate all my resources into advancing the engine along with the editor. See what the users come up with, and take it from there. 

A lot of the concept art at the moment reminds me of Dishonored, which to me was very unique, imaginative and enjoyable. r_high_vis 1 will always be there so I don't see why people are so up in arms about this.

 

 

I love the weapon designs in Dishonored :>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never been a fan of this particular style (steampunk-ish), I'm glad you're trying something other than sci-fi but I don't think this is for me.

 

I'm still interested in seeing them ingame though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The weapons look cool in the concepts. But It is very hard to do the whole thing. Meaning to cross the border from "steampunk-ish" to actual being steampunk. The best thing about reflex is in my opinion the editor. It is so easy to use that you enable many many people to create something cool. I myself actually bought the game maybe 50% because of the editor. Collaboratively editing - yay!

Now everything I have created until now has the prospect of being the wrong style of the game, because the game is heading towards steampunk.

Also I have to say I bought the game after seeing people play the game on twitch and finding the subreddit. I didn't care so much about  what the game might become later I didn't saw the conceptart until very late actually. 

 

All the meshes that have been added lately are quite nice as itself. They look steampunky and oldschool-industrial - all things I love! Only they don't fit in 100% of the maps right now. 100% of the maps that people created - often people who are no professional or semiprofessional mapmakers - have that minimalistic feel in it (maybe this dp4 or 5 map is different). If you have the same kind of maps in the future but with some chains or oldschool lights in it they will not necessarily look better or like persuasive steampunk. It will be low-poly-architecture with some very fine high-poly ready-made meshed. And the meshes will all be the same, because none of the hobby-mappers is actually capable of creating own meshes an importing them into the game. Right now all the fine details are created with just brushes and the vertex-editing. And some look very cool. 

 

I like the weapon concepts, but I think that all the rest of the art should maybe wait a little. First the editor should become more powerful with some addition textures and round shapes. The community will use all that to create beautiful maps. Right now everyone is free to create every possible map. Don't take the mappers/artists on a tight leash by defining narrow barriers regarding art-direction yet. 

 

If the game as it is now (art/style i mean) is going to totally disappear, I think some people will feel a little betrayed. So I would really appreciate if the Art and concept would apply on player-model and weapon only for the next time. I really dig the steampunk idea, but if you rely on the community to create cool steampunk-maps this will not work so well. At least in the original idea of making everyone able to make a cool map. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of the concept art at the moment reminds me of Dishonored, which to me was very unique, imaginative and enjoyable. r_high_vis 1 will always be there so I don't see why people are so up in arms about this.

I love the weapon designs in Dishonored :>

 

Glad you brought that up, wanted to mention level design and the "amazing" part of it in that context.

 

A little story in that regard (you can tell I am old-school ;))... I recently replayed Half-Life 2 Update twice to get all the achievements... and even though I still like the game, I never really was a fan of the run-down eastern European look in that game. But replaying the game I came away with still liking it, and I put that down to the many open spaces and the sun everywhere (i.e. the lighting) plus the great music. So light and music giving the game soul.

 

Only towards the end did I remember what impressed me the most and was a great pay-off having slogged through all that combat and corridors... the Citadel... I really love that design... futuristic and alien at the same time... simple geometry that just looks slightly off (the lead artist's style was, among other things, narrow and tall... see the creepy way the trains look in the game). And I have to admit I was thinking along those lines for Reflex... or maybe hoping for that.

 

Many years after Half-Life 2, I came across Disturbed... and quickly dismissed it, since I do not like dirty and gritty and slightly medevil-lish themes... so after all the DLC for the game was out I looked again and found the screenshots and the designs intriguing. And then got the game just for the level designs... and loved the game. There was something about the design that reminded me of something I already liked... and after some reading it turns out the lead artist was responsible for the designs in Half-Life 2 as well.

 

So as things stand, I am hoping that some degree of architectural amazement between Citadel and Disturbed can make it into Reflex. And IMO the weapon models show that potential. In some ways the weapons have recognizable elements, others are strange... and as a basis for a design IMO that is a good start.

 

Interestingly, the post industrial, lets just keep calling it Teslapunk... was prevalent in Disturbed... only there whale oil was the main energy source. So I think Disturbed might be a good inspiration for Reflex in some regard.

 

Well... I am still a sucker for a Citadel-Halo kinda look... but that has already been done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just make sure that the weapons would look good in first person! This kind of RL would look like a metal pipe that shoots rockets, not very creative at all.

 

 

Wasn't the Q3 RL pretty much that in first person? It wasn't a straight pipe though. The potential Reflex RL could have a more flared out section at the end of the barrel, like an old Blunderbuss:

 

 

 

barbar_blunderbuss_F1-440x270.jpg

blunderbuss_of_impracticality__5__by_kur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh... on the subject of weapon design, for those that may not have been around back then when the q3test was released. Quite a few folks where vocally "whining" about the to them "crappy" Q3A weapon designs, saying "this just cannot be the real thing they must be place holders"... now such designs have been brought up as preferred to the first Reflex ones in this thread. Times seem to change <_<

 

Hmm... maybe the approach to take presently should be "wait and give the designs some time" allowing us all to get used to them.

 

 

The Blunderbuss tube design looks interesting, I'll admit that, but is that not the design of a shotgun (during piratey times)? For an RL you want the tubing to stick to a certain diameter to keep the rocket trajectory as "guided straight" as possible, and not artificially destabilize the trajectory by widening the nuzzle. Mind you I don't really know how weapons work, though my comment should make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These designs look rather copy&paste instead of creating something aestically beautiful and logically functional. Plasmagun looks especially terrible, rocket launcher seems fine and the two other are rather generic.

 

If your artist has never done concepthing of weapons I think you should hire proper 2d artist to do some fast sketches and develop a "design language" for the game. Your artist can then visualize 2d concepts and bring them ingame. Same goes for character design, you cant just throw some stuff together and hope it works, you need to have clear vision and understanding of what to do and why.

 

Hopefully you open steamworkshop soon so artists can start creating custom weapon models, map editor assets and other stuff that will make game awesome.

 

[edit]

What comes to artstyle you are choosing: If I was you I would aim for semi-realistic / semi-cartoony look, because ur engine aint really UE4 or even unity5. Trying to be realistic and failing at it will just make game look cheap to people not familar with gameplay. If realism isnt possiblity rather choose artstyle that is visually appealing and dont even try to be realistic, but only pleasing to eye.

 

[edit2]

Also I think its rather weird that you add all sorts of pipes and stuff that doesnt really help any mapper to create beautiful maps at this point. Rather give them proper textures and control to materials. If it seems like its too big of to deal to implement to your current mapping engine, allow creating maps in some 3d software like blender. I see no reason to re-create tools that we already have. Ingame editor is great for sketching, but I bet any real artist would pick real software over it anytime no matter how much hours you put in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks cool! Hard to imagine what they will look like in first person, though. My initial thought is that they might need to be a little bigger (wider) and more ridiculous, but maybe that's just what I like. :) For example, the plasma canisters look small; I'd like to see them like double the size and pulsing and shit. :D Looking most forward to LG!

 

I'm glad you moved away from the boring futuristic sci-fi theme. There's already a game like this: Warsow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Seems there needs to be a few things cleared up officially.
 
First of all, this is 3 first pass weapon concepts without the supporting effects and additional colour treatments they'll be given. They will be most likely given another pass as more of the weapons are done. The main components for visibility on them at ranges will be the effects associated with them (not just firing effects, but while idle). I mentioned on reddit (already been pasted here by someone else) that the silhouette of how the character holds the weapon is a much more distinguishable element at most common/longer ranges it'll be seen. Comparing it to other first person shooter weapons such as from the Quake series is a bit redundant as those are bare bone simple shapes with colour and for the most part are not visible at high speeds and at distances. Weapons alone do NOT physically get the screen real estate to be able to make them the single identifying element, they need other supporting ones.
 
Justfying the movements players can do is a bit ridiculous, in the real world this would have to be some kind of robotic drone with hydraulics and jet thrusters. As someone else said, Orb. We don't need to or want to be trying to justify the physics through player visuals.
 
We're not going for realism with gameplay, we're not going for realism with visuals.
We're not doing pure "sci-fi" although there will be some science fiction elements. There's enough sci-fi FPS games out there (even in development currently), we don't want to be the same or even competing with them in the visuals department, we believe it's a good opportunity to take a different route and hold our own being more distinct.
 
The hostile, rocket launcher and UI (visuals) will all be changing.
 
It's not steampunk. I said in the interview with phgp it's not steampunk, calm down :)
I don't think I've made a single steam powered asset, nor is there any in the pipeline. Someone threw around the term teslapunk, which I find more fitting. There are some bits and pieces of elements of existing games that I can mention as sources for inspiration. I'll mention the games, but it's going to be tricky to explain which bits and pieces from each would be the closest match. The look we're going for hasn't been done before, so it's trickier to explain.
 
We're not going for realism, so for texture treatment we're planning on going with something along the lines of dishonored. This is not to say old victorian buildings and ornate details everywhere, this is from the core technical aspect of how there are strokes visible in textures and isn't just straight photo realism. This gives us more freedom while also speeding up development time in a lot of ways. We're only a small team.
 
The other game would be "The Order 1886" for how technological advancements are integrated through weaponry/gadgets in an older time period.
 
The time period is around 1930, when Tesla and Eddison were going head to head. Imagine they were contracted by the government to develop weaponry and experiment with integrating that with chemical compounds, allowing for biological applications (powerups/enhanced abilities).
 
This means that there will be a mixture of the Industrial Revolution era, mixed with some technology elements that would kind of be considered "sci-fi", but done tastefully so that they're believable and added into the era (Dishonored and HL2 are some good examples of this). Obviously with the mapping tools being available, how many tech elements are put into a map and how things are used can provide a drastically different look. Something can end up a lot more techy looking this way.
 
We put a lot of thought and testing into our gameplay, the art development process goes under the same lengthy planning and discussions, we're not going to release something that's crap, we're going to focus and work on it until it's good. Again it just takes time and we are a small team :)
 
I imagine this will probably cause more stir, and another 100 posts across 4+ pages in multiple threads and votes/polls, but hey that's fine. Normally you don't get to see this kind of development process with game dev studios, they don't show things this early on so I can't imagine anyone outside the industry knowing what to expect, and are only commenting off what they know or making assumptions. We felt that we wanted to show this earlier on because we're pretty open with our development processes (to a certain extent) with other areas such as the roadmap.
 
Cheers guys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"The time period is around 1940, when Tesla and Eddison were going head to head. Imagine they were contracted by the government to develop weaponry and experiment with integrating that with chemical compounds, allowing for biological applications (powerups/enhanced abilities)."

 

 

Dude wtf, 1940 was world war 2. Tesla would be 83 years old at this point lmao.

Back to school....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly

 

I actually meant 1930 when writing the initial post, so it was a typo. Correcting now.

Tesla did work on inventions up until he died and was bankrupt though. Ours is set in a bit more of an alternate reality with a bit of a "what if" scenario from taking the inventions and weaponizing them, not necessarily Tesla himself building them, but if he had been given the funds and hired under contract to do the designs. I appreciate your passion for historical authenticity though :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually meant 1930 when writing the initial post, so it was a typo. Correcting now.

 

Yeah sure, Tesla and Edison were going "head to head" even tho Edison was already dead. Don't want to sound like a dick but you might want to do some research, it might actually inspire you. OK sure, alternate history bullshit, I get it.  I'll drop it now. Anyway I understand what style you're going for and I'm not really a fan of this new direction but I'll try not to judge until I see more of it. At least it would differentiate Reflex from CPMA.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah sure, Tesla and Edison were going "head to head" even tho Edison was already dead. Don't want to sound like a dick but you might want to do some research, it might actually inspire you. OK sure, alternate history bullshit, I get it.  I'll drop it now. Anyway I understand what style you're going for and I'm not really a fan of this new direction but I'll try not to judge until I see more of it. At least it would differentiate Reflex from CPMA.

 

 

He died in 1931...

 

Seriously, just stop. You're not doing pedantry correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Backstory sounds pretty good to me; as others have said, a nice departure from the stale sci-fi games.

 

Loved the atmosphere in Dishonored, and The Order of 1886 looks pretty polished as well, so I'm happy to hear the Reflex art concept will be similar.

 

I trust Electro and the dev team to design sufficiently distinguishable weapons. Given the focus the dev team has showed towards creating a competitively viable game, I think everyone else should trust them too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×