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EternalRage

Execution vs Decision Making

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(Arguing with the assumption that sounds will eventually be fixed and will be distance limited)

 

Personally I've found timers at high level play shift the focus in terms of mechanics even more, there's no real decision making when you know red is up 5 seconds before mega is there(Providing your movement isn't shit)?

Decision making is almost always defined (in my mind) as an educated gamble, what's more of a decision I ask? You can see specifically when and which armour has been picked up, giving you an instant approximation of the enemies location OR You hearing the enemy picked up one armour and(depending on position) not knowing which one? The latter in my opinion creates a whole lot of possibilities for possible enemy location, hence you'd need a better guess to deduce what they're doing(IE Bolt is on same route).

I think though that the aspect of control in Reflex is severely underplayed at the moment, (I haven't played this game seriously for a few months but when I did play I managed to rack up approximately 300hours in about 4 months of gameplay), I prefer a boa constrictor type gameplay, attacking only on advantages whereas in reality the focus has shifted to heavy rail usage, where combined with timers gives the decisions a severely reduced effect. I think implementing decisions akin to the level they're prevalent on CS is a terrible idea though, as I've played some organised CS and by Cooller it is boring and not suited to the kind of player who'd like AFPS but that's the kind of tradeoff we've got to think about, tactics vs Balls to the wall action.

 

Reflex has done well in some regards, such as implementing a switch time cooldown, which meant weapon choice become an actual factor in gameplay whereas in CPM it was some superficial choice that didn't matter if you had the reactions to fix it. I think there should be a lot more variables that we can change in regards to the game, ie: Once a week we can test gameplay decisions, as it would provide very valuable feedback, something as simple as callvote rocket/rail damage multiplier, it'd be very easy for the developers to gather statistics on what people prefer or even what creates more balanced games, etc.

Edited by Morgoth

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​Call of Duty is the best fps ever, and is what a true gamer would want.

Call of Duty uses the most advanced game engine in the industry.
It runs at a consistent 60fps and at full HD 1080p. No other engine can do this.

Call of Duty also has the best writers in the industry to write the amazing singelplayer campaign.

Call of Duty was also the first fps to ever hit the marked.

3bb272d463cd339b8a7473aaa8327d43.jpg

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​Call of Duty is the best fps ever, and is what a true gamer would want.

Call of Duty uses the most advanced game engine in the industry.
It runs at a consistent 60fps and at full HD 1080p. No other engine can do this.

Call of Duty also has the best writers in the industry to write the amazing singelplayer campaign.

Call of Duty was also the first fps to ever hit the marked.

I read this and shat myself laughing. TY for making my day. Best troll comment ever.

Gr8+b8+m8+butt+il+rek+u+a+new+hole+_81e1

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​....... and you know that in 1.6 you'd compensate for your lack of aim way better than in CS:GO, right? Less possibilities for compensation -> higher emphasis on execution. Pretty straight forward. Neo isn't the top player he was in 1.6 for a reason..... it's because his execution regarding aim etc. never was THAT awesome, but rather in other areas. Movement, outplaying etc. etc. . All this stuff matters less in CSGO -> he is a "worse" player.

Tbh i don't even wanna discuss that more.

For me a more aim-focussed game is worse than a game which allows outmoving and outplaying.. in my opinion csgo is worse than 1.6, but it looks more modern and it has item-trading and matchmaking..

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For me a more aim-focussed game is worse than a game which allows outmoving and outplaying.. in my opinion csgo is worse than 1.6, but it looks more modern and it has item-trading and matchmaking..

​CSGO is the perfect competitive game, with it's perfect hitbox alignment, perfect tagging system, hearthstone-like one shot chance, perfect wallbanging system...

 

AND it  has gun hats.

 

CS1.6 is obviously a game for people who don't know what skill is...

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So many things I'd like to say, that I can't figure out how to word without being excessively rude.

 

In your approach to other games you exemplify a very strong aversion to any sort of logic. You seem to confuse your personal opinion of distaste for those titles as an undeniable fact regarding those games objective skill requisites. You act like your opinion dictates what does or does not take "skill", as if you get to define the word. Just about anyone else here who doesn't care for other games at least acknowledge the skill involved. That's the difference between you and the rest of these people who actually have fairly similar tastes to you, and it's why you're reacted to so poorly. Basically you're wrong, and you aggressively back your self up with faulty logic.(read none at all)

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Here is an interesting side story,  Recently it was admitted CS:GO pros are using adderall at pro lan tournaments.

 

I'm not expert on drugs but based on what I read I think adderall would help with execution based tasks and stuff like reaction times.  Given Reflex is even more execution heavy than CS:GO; is that the future for this game if it ends being competitive?  All of us on uppers or adderall to compete?  I have used caffeine to good effect in my past competitive AFPS history and it seems to help cause my reaction times go down.

Part of it is I definitely think execution ability suffers with how many of these tournaments are run.  They are marathon events.  Even many Reflex tournaments are hours and hours long online.  I've always preferred a season format where matches are spread out over weeks so you have time to prepare, practice and be fresh for every match.

 

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(Arguing with the assumption that sounds will eventually be fixed and will be distance limited)

 

Personally I've found timers at high level play shift the focus in terms of mechanics even more, there's no real decision making when you know red is up 5 seconds before mega is there(Providing your movement isn't shit)?

Decision making is almost always defined (in my mind) as an educated gamble, what's more of a decision I ask? You can see specifically when and which armour has been picked up, giving you an instant approximation of the enemies location OR You hearing the enemy picked up one armour and(depending on position) not knowing which one? The latter in my opinion creates a whole lot of possibilities for possible enemy location, hence you'd need a better guess to deduce what they're doing(IE Bolt is on same route).

I think though that the aspect of control in Reflex is severely underplayed at the moment, (I haven't played this game seriously for a few months but when I did play I managed to rack up approximately 300hours in about 4 months of gameplay), I prefer a boa constrictor type gameplay, attacking only on advantages whereas in reality the focus has shifted to heavy rail usage, where combined with timers gives the decisions a severely reduced effect. I think implementing decisions akin to the level they're prevalent on CS is a terrible idea though, as I've played some organised CS and by Cooller it is boring and not suited to the kind of player who'd like AFPS but that's the kind of tradeoff we've got to think about, tactics vs Balls to the wall action.

 

Reflex has done well in some regards, such as implementing a switch time cooldown, which meant weapon choice become an actual factor in gameplay whereas in CPM it was some superficial choice that didn't matter if you had the reactions to fix it. I think there should be a lot more variables that we can change in regards to the game, ie: Once a week we can test gameplay decisions, as it would provide very valuable feedback, something as simple as callvote rocket/rail damage multiplier, it'd be very easy for the developers to gather statistics on what people prefer or even what creates more balanced games, etc.

​pretty insightful

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(Arguing with the assumption that sounds will eventually be fixed and will be distance limited)

 

Personally I've found timers at high level play shift the focus in terms of mechanics even more, there's no real decision making when you know red is up 5 seconds before mega is there(Providing your movement isn't shit)?

Decision making is almost always defined (in my mind) as an educated gamble, what's more of a decision I ask? You can see specifically when and which armour has been picked up, giving you an instant approximation of the enemies location OR You hearing the enemy picked up one armour and(depending on position) not knowing which one? The latter in my opinion creates a whole lot of possibilities for possible enemy location, hence you'd need a better guess to deduce what they're doing(IE Bolt is on same route).

I think though that the aspect of control in Reflex is severely underplayed at the moment, (I haven't played this game seriously for a few months but when I did play I managed to rack up approximately 300hours in about 4 months of gameplay), I prefer a boa constrictor type gameplay, attacking only on advantages whereas in reality the focus has shifted to heavy rail usage, where combined with timers gives the decisions a severely reduced effect. I think implementing decisions akin to the level they're prevalent on CS is a terrible idea though, as I've played some organised CS and by Cooller it is boring and not suited to the kind of player who'd like AFPS but that's the kind of tradeoff we've got to think about, tactics vs Balls to the wall action.

 

Reflex has done well in some regards, such as implementing a switch time cooldown, which meant weapon choice become an actual factor in gameplay whereas in CPM it was some superficial choice that didn't matter if you had the reactions to fix it. I think there should be a lot more variables that we can change in regards to the game, ie: Once a week we can test gameplay decisions, as it would provide very valuable feedback, something as simple as callvote rocket/rail damage multiplier, it'd be very easy for the developers to gather statistics on what people prefer or even what creates more balanced games, etc.

​timing is as much of a skill as aiming or movement, hud timers remove the skill completely and remove a lot of strategy and mental thought that's involved in high level games. it's good people realize this though, enough people voiced their concern for the devs to mention locking down the hud. i agree more ideas should be tried, the 'key' concept on that new duel map in QL is a new and fresh idea, we should be supporting things like that.

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Has anyone in this forum actually played a game at a high level ? Reading some of this shit is hilarous, and also all of you are completely missing the main point of why csgo and dota is more popular than afps. It's quite simple actually, dota is a TEAM game with 5 people that u can play with friends. So is csgo, which makes these games insanely casual friendly because playing with friends is 10 times less toxic than playing alone. It also removes the pressure factor of underperforming because in afps there is only 1 reason to why u lost and in dota/cs there can be up to thousands of possible reasons to why u lost a game.

Afps is not unpopular because it's hard for beginners, this concept is just so fucking hilarous for me to even comprehend. Dota is so much harder than afps for beginners it's not even comparable. Now i might be a bit biased since i have around 10k hours in dota 2 and only 40 hours in reflex+xonotic combined but from what i've played and from my experience if i played everyday for 3 months (not saying everyone can do this) i would be able to compete against decently high skilled players in reflex but if i lost all of my experience in dota 2 it would take atleast 1 year for me to be able to even play at a 4k mmr level (4k mmr is 99th percentile, i have had several accounts over 7k in dota 2).

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Now i might be a bit biased since i have around 10k hours in dota 2 and only 40 hours in reflex+xonotic combined but from what i've played and from my experience if i played everyday for 3 months (not saying everyone can do this) i would be able to compete against decently high skilled players in reflex but if i lost all of my experience in dota 2 it would take atleast 1 year for me to be able to even play at a 4k mmr level (4k mmr is 99th percentile, i have had several accounts over 7k in dota 2).

Dota 2 has millions of of active players, reflex has about 50 tops. You can win ridiculous money in Dota while a hundred bucks is already a pretty big price pool in reflex. The level of competition is not comparable.

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Has anyone in this forum actually played a game at a high level ? Reading some of this shit is hilarous, and also all of you are completely missing the main point of why csgo and dota is more popular than afps. It's quite simple actually, dota is a TEAM game with 5 people that u can play with friends. So is csgo, which makes these games insanely casual friendly because playing with friends is 10 times less toxic than playing alone. It also removes the pressure factor of underperforming because in afps there is only 1 reason to why u lost and in dota/cs there can be up to thousands of possible reasons to why u lost a game.

Afps is not unpopular because it's hard for beginners, this concept is just so fucking hilarous for me to even comprehend. Dota is so much harder than afps for beginners it's not even comparable. Now i might be a bit biased since i have around 10k hours in dota 2 and only 40 hours in reflex+xonotic combined but from what i've played and from my experience if i played everyday for 3 months (not saying everyone can do this) i would be able to compete against decently high skilled players in reflex but if i lost all of my experience in dota 2 it would take atleast 1 year for me to be able to even play at a 4k mmr level (4k mmr is 99th percentile, i have had several accounts over 7k in dota 2).

​I think you highly exaggerate your own abilities...

And as the wise Pill said there is little player base, the best players sort of stagnate.

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The importance of imperfect item knowledge is being overemphasised by many people who argue for it. The strategies around imperfect knowledge are interesting but they do not make the game.

I personally like some of the trickery that comes with imperfect timing knowledge, but coming from both QL and CPM I don't think the game is by any means broken with perfect knowledge. It makes the higher level of the game a great deal more accessible (and possibly more entertaining) while sacrificing a minor aspect of the game. I don't think you should attach yourself too closely to timing-knowledge based strategies - they are good but they are just one part of the game. Baiting and faking routes by either the ooc or ic player happens just as much in Reflex with perfect knowledge. I haven't played enough duels to decisively say yet but I don't find the game particularly lacking with the timers, compared to QL or QW. It certainly doesn't ruin the game.
 
There is also the fact that in high level play of games with imperfect knowledge both players will be as aware as they possibly can of the item times. On relatively small maps (which are common in QW and CPM, and to a lesser extent QL) it is quite easy to know the times of both major items, at least within a 2-5 second margin. When a player is unaware of the time they are less likely to take risks by showing up to a major item fight. When they are aware of the item time, they are more likely to take the risk. Does this make the game more or less interesting/exciting? Can you answer that question without making a value judgement?
 
While there is a substantial and convincing argument for not having HUD item timers, the actual effect that they have on the game is by no means ruinous, and there are many grey areas with regards to what is actually good or bad about having them/not having them.
 
Also I suspect that many people criticising Reflex are comparing it to their knowledge of Q3/QL/Q4. In those games the movement system, map designs and weapons are so different that having/not having item timers will have a substantially different effect on the gameplay than if this were added to QW or CPM (which are closer to Reflex gameplay). People are just not aware of the preconceptions that they hold when they argue for or against certain things in the game.
Edited by cerno

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Recently it was admitted CS:GO pros are using adderall at pro lan tournaments.I'm not expert on drugs but based on what I read I think adderall would help with execution based tasks and stuff like reaction times.  Given Reflex is even more execution heavy than CS:GO; is that the future for this game if it ends being competitive?  All of us on uppers or adderall to compete?  I have used caffeine to good effect in my past competitive AFPS history and it seems to help cause my reaction times go down.

 

Adderall would help in execution based task at low(er) doses.  The future to any competitive activity is to be as best as you can be by any means within reason.  Especially with money on the line.  So the video is not surprising in the least.  In some cases (most) I'd think it would be foolish not to.  Modafinil would help as well.  The list goes on and on...

Adderall doesn't automatically stain something because it might benefit the performance of the end user.  I'm merely suggesting Adderall at low doses would help in a clarity in decision making too, as well as mental fatigue.

Edited by EternalRage

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The future to any competitive activity is to be as best as you can be by any means within reason.  Especially with money on the line.  So the video is not surprising in the least.  In some cases (most) I'd think it would be foolish not to.  Modafinil would help as well.

​ESEA now enforces PED testing (I'm assuming just for LAN?), so nowadays it would be foolish to do so.

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​ESEA now enforces PED testing (I'm assuming just for LAN?), so nowadays it would be foolish to do so.

You can't genuinely PED test (a silly acronym).  It's a road to nowhere.  Chemists will accept small fees to alter the molecular structure of existing substances if not create entirely new ones.  Look, this isn't the place to get into this, but the general public are IGNORANT AS FUCK on this topic.  And their holier than thou judgments on athletes is naïve, and in my opinion, downright silly at times.

These "organizations" are like smokescreens.  Like the TSA.  An illusion of safety and validity.

In my opinion everything should be unregulated at every conceivable competition, anywhere and everywhere, forever.

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You can't genuinely PED test (a silly acronym).  It's a road to nowhere.  Chemists will accept small fees to alter the molecular structure of existing substances if not create entirely new ones.  Look, this isn't the place to get into this, but the general public are IGNORANT AS FUCK on this topic.  And their holier than thou judgments on athletes is naïve, and in my opinion, downright silly at times.

These "organizations" are like smokescreens.  Like the TSA.  An illusion of safety and validity.

In my opinion everything should be unregulated at every conceivable competition, anywhere and everywhere, forever.

​I guess I'll start working on the code for my stack tracker, wall hacks, and aimbot then.

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Klyph0rd do you really think that's equivalent? 

​You just said it does not matter if athletes consume loads of drugs that will surely secure their victory over everyone not doping.

Its the same, wallhacks and aimbots secure your vicotry over everybody not using them or at least give a massive advantage.

 

In sport its who has the better scientists to develop drugs that enhace the humas as much as possible without killing him (too early). In reflex it is which aimbot locks on faster.

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In my opinion everything should be unregulated at every conceivable competition, anywhere and everywhere, forever.

​But its true this has nothing to do with the topic anymore.

Edited by NeuerGolf

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Yeah...i agree...CS:GO is a TERRIBLE game....really. HORRIBLE. I wonder why it peaks at 600.000 people playing. Honestly. Wtf is this shit game /sarcasm

Mrxe4UV.png

​argumentum ad populum?

no opinion on cs:go (cs 1.3 was better anyway :P)

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​But its true this has nothing to do with the topic anymore.

​You said I said:

You just said it does not matter if athletes consume loads of drugs that will surely secure their victory over everyone not doping. ENDQUOTE

Which is not what I said.

:)

 

 

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