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Request to Reward Superior Target Tracking

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As some of you may have noticed, since the last reduction in the ion cannon damage, even having nearly the best target tracking humanly possible whilst using the weapon will not reward one with the ability to sport higher damage output than they would using rockets, even though target tracking is virtually more challenging in Reflex than it is in any other FPS game in recorded history. B) In addition, plasma, the supposed ultimate choice of a weapon for combat in relatively narrow corridors and when being chased around corners and curved walls, consistently ubiquitously fails to provide more damage output than rockets. Arguably worse and most prominent, even at close range, achieving any arbitrary degree of damage output using plasma seems to require significantly more effort than it would to achieve the very same one using the ion cannon, while both weapons seem to share a common damage output ceiling at that range, making plasma about as useful as grenades, if not inferior to them. Hence, with the axe, burst gun, shotgun and grenade launcher serving as extremely circumstantial weapons, the Reflex metagame experience is, quite literally, brutally dominated by the usage of rockets and rails.

Therefore, regardless of having not inquired into the existence of any option for fetching accuracy statistics records following a match in order to determine the degree to which my impression is influenced by the netcode and by my ideal ping on public servers, I would please like to ask the damage values of both the ion cannon and plasma be examined and increased, seeing how the fire rates of both are seemingly at their conceivable maximum. Also, I would appreciate any response to this post detailing any identification with or alienation by the impression depicted in it, as well as any support for or opposition to my request.

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The dps (damage per second) since the last update went from something like 107 to 104. Almost nothing. The IC as it is now is extremely effective, in my opinion. I have been using it heavily during duels as of late. Ask almost any regular mid to high level duel-er and they'll say the same thing.

Edited by Stalast

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i think they are both fine as they are. i'll give my 2 cents as to why.

first off, the game concept of primary and secondary weapons. the primary being RL, RG and IC/LG. and the secondaries as GL, SG, and MG.

you don't want, for example, to balance the MG to the RL - the rockets will always be  the stronger weapon. some weapons are designed to be inferior, to use them correctly is part of the game. (otherwise, you would just grab any gun and run with it).

plasma is never meant to hit. it's a spam weapon that forces the enemy to not be there. also consider that, with reflex's movement, hitting anything, with anything, is hard. the PG pretty much guarantees a few hits, and IF you are good and he's bad, you can still deal a WTF-level of damage.

(i'm a massive user of PG in QL. http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/GnGBnG and i ain't even kidding.)

i find reflex's PG to be easier to hit with. even at 12dmg, i think it's balanced.

 

regarding the IC (LG) .. i am not so sure.

given that it's harder to land hits in Reflex, and it's easier to dodge, the IC already has an advantage over pretty much everything else. It's the only hitscan weapon that you can shoot at midrange without getting killed if you miss (good luck with that railgun);

i just think that having the IC at 8 would make it too important as a weapon.

generally in QL TDM you want RL, Rail and LG, and you are set.. but if you only have RL and rail, you're doing ok.  onlyRL / onlyRG not so much.

in Reflex, with IC at 5, it would be the same. But with IC at 8 you would be at a HUGE disadvantage if the other player has RL/Bolt/IC and you only have RL+Bolt.

hell, IC@8 and you would not even need the rocket launcher anymore.

 

 

i'm not saying the IC at 8 wold not be fun.. it would be tons of fun. but it would detract from the movement, at least this is what i have seen in BLR, too much hitscan and your movement skills become obsolete.

 

(please dont nerf my shotgun. i suck . i need it.)

 

Edited by Sky

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But plasma does have way bigger knockback effect than in q3, which makes it good defensive weapon. I might be wrong, but just felt the knockback is bigger since plasmajumps are much higher than in q3.

I agree, I now use PG to fend off the RA platform on dp4 instead of IC since the knockback is so effective.

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I feel like IC is in a pretty good place right now. It's simply consistent, unavoidable damage on anyone in your view and range. These are not aspects to be forgotten. If it rivaled the rocket dps there would be no reason to ever use anything else.

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I quite like the balance of the game. Bolt, Ion, RL are the go to weapons. Their balance is fine. I think Plasma could use a slight buff. Shotgun damage seems randomly large at times, but it's still a great finisher, and will be very powerful in TDM. GL damage could be lower, since it's notably just a spammy weapon.

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IC is very powerful at the moment, more so than in CPM due to the enhanced feedback from the higher firing rate and godly netcode.

 

IC doesn't need a buff, rockets do.

​This. I cannot agree more. In every other game my rockets have always been better than my IC/LG and when I play Reflex I find myself using it more and more.

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OP, I'm baffled by your argumentation. The higher firing rate rewards accurate tracking way more than a damage increase would. In a shaft-shaft fight, the better tracking-aimer now undeniably has a bigger advantage, since he will land proportionally more hits than he did before the change. It is also infinitely more fun to use now.

Regarding its efficiency compared to other weapons, if you're using it in situations where your opponent is able to do equal or more damage to you with rockets, then you're undeniably using it the wrong way. Mastering weapon choice should be rewarded more than mastering tracking aim.

Edited by Mizzu

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OP, I'm baffled by your argumentation. The higher firing rate rewards accurate tracking way more than a damage increase would. In a shaft-shaft fight, the better tracking-aimer now undeniably has a bigger advantage, since he will land proportionally more hits than he did before the change. It is also infinitely more fun to use now.

​And less fun by getting hit by a good tracker :)

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Regarding its efficiency compared to other weapons, if you're using it in situations where your opponent is able to do equal or more damage to you with rockets, then you're undeniably using it the wrong way.

​That, or you should work on your dodging.

Personally I think the balance is fine atm. Maybe shotgun could have a little more spread to make it less effective at mid range.

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As some of you may have noticed, since the last reduction in the ion cannon damage, even having nearly the best target tracking humanly possible whilst using the weapon will not reward one with the ability to sport higher damage output than they would using rockets, even though target tracking is virtually more challenging in Reflex than it is in any other FPS game in recorded history. B) In addition, plasma, the supposed ultimate choice of a weapon for combat in relatively narrow corridors and when being chased around corners and curved walls, consistently ubiquitously fails to provide more damage output than rockets. Arguably worse and most prominent, even at close range, achieving any arbitrary degree of damage output using plasma seems to require significantly more effort than it would to achieve the very same one using the ion cannon, while both weapons seem to share a common damage output ceiling at that range, making plasma about as useful as grenades, if not inferior to them. Hence, with the axe, burst gun, shotgun and grenade launcher serving as extremely circumstantial weapons, the Reflex metagame experience is, quite literally, brutally dominated by the usage of rockets and rails.

Therefore, regardless of having not inquired into the existence of any option for fetching accuracy statistics records following a match in order to determine the degree to which my impression is influenced by the netcode and by my ideal ping on public servers, I would please like to ask the damage values of both the ion cannon and plasma be examined and increased, seeing how the fire rates of both are seemingly at their conceivable maximum. Also, I would appreciate any response to this post detailing any identification with or alienation by the impression depicted in it, as well as any support for or opposition to my request.

​Agreed.

For anyone who disagrees:

Does anyone have a well-thought-out, logical argument that doesn't include "I like this game the way it is?"

Maybe an explanation regarding why you disagree, and what (you think) would happen if the Ion Cannon/Plasma got a buff. Would it cause the gameplay to be imbalanced? The end-goal here is balance.

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If the current state of the IC and its limited utility are supported by most, as it appears in this thread, then I will not pursue any further attempts to bring rebalancing it into consideration. Nonetheless, I am very much bothered by how devastating rockets are in comparison, particularly for how little challenge there is, evidently, in making efficient use of them. I would, then, like to urge they be made more easily interchangeable with other weapons by reducing the radius of their splash damage by about 20%, thereby demanding more precise target trajectory prediction when using them. This should be desirable in aspiration to keep the weapon balance in line with the premise of the game, specifically the encouragement of constant, swift and fluid movement, rather than emphasis on maintaining position during combat around choke points and items.

Regardless, I will certainly be awaiting an increase in the PG damage soon.

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​Agreed.

For anyone who disagrees:

Does anyone have a well-thought-out, logical argument that doesn't include "I like this game the way it is?"

Maybe an explanation regarding why you disagree, and what (you think) would happen if the Ion Cannon/Plasma got a buff. Would it cause the gameplay to be imbalanced? The end-goal here is balance.

​you could try, idk, reading.

every single post between the OP and yours is a rational and well explained reason as to why the IC is fine as it is now; exactly what you are asking for, right?

 

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​Agreed.

For anyone who disagrees:

Does anyone have a well-thought-out, logical argument that doesn't include "I like this game the way it is?"

Maybe an explanation regarding why you disagree, and what (you think) would happen if the Ion Cannon/Plasma got a buff. Would it cause the gameplay to be imbalanced? The end-goal here is balance.

Right now IC has a well defined role as a mid range weapon, which it fills excellently. If it got buffed we'd enter a position similar to the one QL was in, where shaft is so strong it outshines every other weapon regardless of the situation (<-- hyperbole).

This match is a pretty good example of what I'm talking about:

 

Edited by AMIPILL

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Played Reflex for the first time in a while a few days ago. What is the need to have so many particles for the LG? Well it's not like I want to see anything anyway I guess...

​The particle effects haven't changed a bit. Just turn down the effect quality.

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