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Reflex 0.37.0 - Mostly eggplant

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I'm absolutely blown away by yet another incredible release by the developers.

Have been having an absolute blast in CTF, Monolith is freaking amazing just... everything is fantastic.

So so so loving this game more and more as I play and someone who has played CPMA & Q3/QL for over 10 years...

I LOVE THE MOVEMENT!!!!!

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A lot of the people that i have noticed in game liking the new jumps don't even really know what they are on about or had even noticed initially until it was mentioned. Not particularly enjoying getting bounced like you would in quakeworld (some instances are very quakeworldy) only to float around as if it were the low grav servers in half life 2 dm. I had right good chuckle when i saw triples at rail on dp4 have you hit the roof.

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1. i don't enjoy that W turning is as good as it is now. i think the movement system should emphasize that turning with A D is superior most of the time, and pre v37 and in cpm, it was. W turning was good for a few jumps inbetween, for airaccel on jumppads, and for defragging which is imo how it should be.

I'm not a good player so i don't really know what i'm talking about, but I feel like W turning didn't get better, it's just that A/D turning got worse, which imho is a good thing because you have less of that crazy air control while gaining speed which I find a little ridiculous in CPMA, but at the same time you can keep momentum when turning by using W turning which is what VQ3 lacks.

Also, I think the W turning was always better, but now it's made more obvious which means I finally got the hang of it. On previous versions I just kept strafe jumping and running into walls, now I find it more intuitive and I use W to take turns more carefully... But that might also be that with CTF in I spend a little time navigating the maps instead of just getting destroyed 2 seconds after spawning ^^;

Edited by BlueScreenJunky

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​It breakes the maps which was made for the certain movement physics. There is a tons of maps for movement training. Primarily Reflex's movement is SKILL BASED, not noob-friendly.

​a/d turning always gave more air control than w turning, and w turn didn't give you speed iirc.

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Very interesting insight into human "objectivity"... which does not seem to exist... har.

  • I learned about sliding along walls last night to apparently keep your "hight in jumps"... and felt that to be a really strange effect. As a bad trick jumper I could not make use of it, but Ammazzabanane was in his map http://reflexfiles.com/file/446 . I.e. he gains speed via strafe jumping, strafes into the wall the steps are attached to, and then double- or tripple-jumps up his brush-based stairs to make a huge jump up at the top end of the stairs. Uncanny.
  • Another thing I was not aware of was the ability to double-jump on 1u high brush edges directly placed on floor, again could not reproduce it myself, but on a 8u high floor brush that worked... something that should actually not work IMO.
  • Or that when when you jump into a 8u brush "at a bad time" when simply running over the floor, you actually start to stick to that flat brush, instead of performing the jump.
  • I noted running down steps that I could very often not jump off them, probably I was still "in the air" or it was that "sticky" effect? Was this introduced in 0.37? I don't recall that happening in 0.36, but may be wrong

​I'm pretty sure that all of these effects have been present in the engine for a long time and are intentional.

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Very interesting insight into human "objectivity"... which does not seem to exist... har.

  • I learned about sliding along walls last night to apparently keep your "hight in jumps"... and felt that to be a really strange effect. As a bad trick jumper I could not make use of it, but Ammazzabanane was in his map http://reflexfiles.com/file/446 . I.e. he gains speed via strafe jumping, strafes into the wall the steps are attached to, and then double- or tripple-jumps up his brush-based stairs to make a huge jump up at the top end of the stairs. Uncanny.
  • Note I was playing on his server with a 59 or so ping, Ammazzabanane was hosting with a ping of 0... maybe the slight ping/netcode makes the difference. I.e. local 0 ping physics vs. netcode filtered physics.
  • Another thing I was not aware of was the ability to double-jump on 1u high brush edges directly placed on floor, again could not reproduce it myself, but on a 8u high floor brush that worked... something that should actually not work IMO.
  • Or that when when you jump into a 8u brush "at a bad time" when simply running over the floor, you actually start to stick to that flat brush, instead of performing the jump.
  • I noted running down steps that I could very often not jump off them, probably I was still "in the air" or it was that "sticky" effect? Was this introduced in 0.37? I don't recall that happening in 0.36, but may be wrong.

Ammazzabanane can explain this better. Just wanted to point out that these physics seem very weird to a very rarely playing player and none of them seem to be intuitive to me. After all that whining in this thread, I found it really strange that none of these things got mentioned.

To be clear... I am a pretty much dilettante at all this, and am just pointing out my observations as someone who has not wasted away his life playing CPMA-like gameplay these past 10 years.

Well said man, pretty mutch everything you pointed out is due too the same mechanic/bug (i actually dont know if this is wanted or not), the "stick to everything you are close enough too while jumping" witch somehow, modifies the height of your jump, because instead of jumping OVER a box, you will allways jump the ON box if you start by facing the box close and start jumping. why? because whenever you get at the height of the box (while jumping) then the jump stops. 

I am guessing this is due to make double jumps/ double-circlejumps easyier but keep in mind this thing creates some awkward scenarios. like jumping 4 units high, just because you jumped right before a 4 units high block, or being able to double jump off of a 4 units high block, also kinda strange.

Btw: the running down steps "disabling" jump is like that since1990 probably :D

Ammazzabanane was in his map http://reflexfiles.com/file/446 . I.e. he gains speed via strafe jumping, strafes into the wall the steps are attached to, and then double- or tripple-jumps up his brush-based stairs to make a huge jump up at the top end of the stairs. Uncanny.

​this has nothing to do with the sticky surfaces you just explained i believe, thats just a triple jump :) 

 

Edited by Ammazzabanane

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 because instead of jumping OVER a box, you will allways jump the ON box if you start by facing the box close and start jumping. why? because whenever you get at the height of the box (while jumping) then the jump stops. 

 

 ​ correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't what you're describing simply a stepup jump?

Edited by dansen

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i dont really mind either way with the movement really, it still has the stuff i enjoy. however, there is one little gripe i have:

1. i don't enjoy that W turning is as good as it is now. i think the movement system should emphasize that turning with A D is superior most of the time, and pre v37 and in cpm, it was. W turning was good for a few jumps inbetween, for airaccel on jumppads, and for defragging which is imo how it should be.

 

2. somewhat related to 1. but from a different perspective. every now and then in reflex, i find myself explaining the movement or duel gameplay to a new player. and in the past, most the time, atleast for the movement part, this was pretty easy. id guess that 80percent of the new players have played csgo. if you tell them first jump WA WD, then move around like in csgo(with A D). they will immediately be able to jump around the map with 600-700ups. one guy even commented "i thought the movement was like quake, and not like cs". now, with such a strong W movement, the above is ofcourse still possible. but even after a few minutes, alot of new players will notice how strong the W turning is and ask about it.

suddenly, the movement is not just WA WD then A D, instead, i find myself explaining to some player 10hours into reflex gameplay, that his first jump should be with WA WD, then he should use A D, and sometimes W. that is just so complicated, and i cant even really put a finger on when to use W.

you can ofcourse argue that it was like this befor, but really W movement could be ignored a very long time until you were really comfortable with everthing else, and even then you didnt really need it. now i'd say that even at a low skilllevel you are put in a somewhat disadvantageous position if you don't learn to use it.

​Agree 100% on this front. I posted something on ESR a couple days ago trying to make this point.

I'm not against adjusting Left/Right strafe turning so you don't gain such a big amount of speed doing it. But it shouldn't be adjusted to the point where using W (forward) turning is sometimes the better option to maintain your max speed. It just makes things a lot more complicated when they shouldn't be. Especially when trying to explain the movement to a new comer, who might already be perplexed about just the basics of the movement. To have to tell them you might need to use another turning style to contend at the higher levels is just another wall in the way of getting a new, consistent player. 0.36 movement was pretty annoying to play against, as some other people I'm pretty sure have said. 0.37 movement is a nice compromise, but the now obvious dominance of W turning in some situations should definitely not stay.

Very interesting insight into human "objectivity"... which does not seem to exist... har.

  • I learned about sliding along walls last night to apparently keep your "hight in jumps"... and felt that to be a really strange effect. As a bad trick jumper I could not make use of it, but Ammazzabanane was in his map http://reflexfiles.com/file/446 . I.e. he gains speed via strafe jumping, strafes into the wall the steps are attached to, and then double- or tripple-jumps up his brush-based stairs to make a huge jump up at the top end of the stairs. Uncanny.
  • Note I was playing on his server with a 59 or so ping, Ammazzabanane was hosting with a ping of 0... maybe the slight ping/netcode makes the difference. I.e. local 0 ping physics vs. netcode filtered physics.
  • Another thing I was not aware of was the ability to double-jump on 1u high brush edges directly placed on floor, again could not reproduce it myself, but on a 8u high floor brush that worked... something that should actually not work IMO.
  • Or that when when you jump into a 8u brush "at a bad time" when simply running over the floor, you actually start to stick to that flat brush, instead of performing the jump.
  • I noted running down steps that I could very often not jump off them, probably I was still "in the air" or it was that "sticky" effect? Was this introduced in 0.37? I don't recall that happening in 0.36, but may be wrong.

Ammazzabanane can explain this better. Just wanted to point out that these physics seem very weird to a very rarely playing player and none of them seem to be intuitive to me. After all that whining in this thread, I found it really strange that none of these things got mentioned.

To be clear... I am a pretty much dilettante at all this, and am just pointing out my observations as someone who has not wasted away his life playing CPMA-like gameplay these past 10 years.

​These techniques have been in the game since CPM. Granted, things are a bit easier (ledges being more 'sticky') in Reflex than they were in CPM.

Edited by entik

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​These techniques have been in the game since CPM. Granted, things are a bit easier (ledges being more 'sticky') in Reflex than they were in CPM.

​Oki :) i didnt  know because i come from quake live and not cpm so im sorry if i pointed out stupid things D: 

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