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CrazyAl

Idea for timers in public/casual TDM

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TDM has always been one of the hardest modes to play, especially for new players. One reason for this is that team play in public TDM (and even in pickups) is mostly non-existent. The game could alleviate this by providing players with the information that their team mates are not, namely item times (though one could argue that timing weapons is more important in TDM, but thats another kettle of fish). A lot of people have strong feelings about item timers one way or another but what I propose is some kind of middle ground, partial item timers.

whatever crazyal, get to the point

Partial item timers as I envision them would provide timers to the team who last picked up said item. So if Team A gets the first red, they have exact timing on the next red but if they lose the next red to Team B then Team A's red timer disappears and Team B now has the red timer. One possible issue that arises from this is that if Team A have control of the red, Team B never knows when the red is coming up so they're never able to contest for it. A possible solution to that is that Team A gets an exact timing, where as Team B only gets a vague timing, say for example the timer only shows up 5 seconds before the item where as Team A can see the full countdown.

Another solution to that issue could be that the team without the timing (or even both teams) would see a 3d timer only when they are close to the item (kinda like Quake Live timers). Note this should only give a vague timing, not exact.

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Casual TDM should have full timers because there's absolutely no reason not to. Regarding your points, casual TDM already has item timers, so by taking some of that functionality away, you're actually worsening the problem.

I consider that even competitive TDM should have a timer for carnage because it's such a gamechanger. Especially with global sounds, it's easy to time carnage with the game clock, so it's not an indicator of skill or teamwork or anything, it's just a tedious nuisance. This is why I don't play TDM.

hi al is that enough of an opinion for you

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5 minutes ago, Qualx said:

I consider that even competitive TDM should have a timer for carnage because it's such a gamechanger. Especially with global sounds, it's easy to time carnage with the game clock, so it's not an indicator of skill or teamwork or anything, it's just a tedious nuisance. This is why I don't play TDM.

People who can't do basic math should not play TDM. So it's kinda dull-filter <:

And remembering the next carnage time and planing to rush it is a part of teamplay. No need to simplify everything.

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3 minutes ago, Qualx said:

Regarding your points, casual TDM already has item timers, so by taking some of that functionality away, you're actually worsening the problem.

The issue with this is that all it does it create chaos when everyone knows the times of every item. It promotes the exact opposite of what I'm trying to achieve by making this post and that is to help people understand team play in TDM. Currently players just jump to an item and get killed. Rinse, repeat. This turns TDM into FFA and makes for random stupid plays, removing any and all team play from the mode.

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37 minutes ago, Qualx said:

Casual TDM should have full timers because there's absolutely no reason not to. Regarding your points, casual TDM already has item timers, so by taking some of that functionality away, you're actually worsening the problem.

I consider that even competitive TDM should have a timer for carnage because it's such a gamechanger. Especially with global sounds, it's easy to time carnage with the game clock, so it's not an indicator of skill or teamwork or anything, it's just a tedious nuisance. This is why I don't play TDM.

hi al is that enough of an opinion for you

the hectic situation that the quad pickup fight is, alot of the time, you only know the quad timing plus minus 2 seconds or something like that. and by looking at the clock, because the spawntime is 90s, you can get confused, and you will. taking that away from tdm is very bad imo.

 

having a timer that tells you when quad comes is just boring. the important thing is that the pickup sound should be global, so that both teams have a chance at it. standing on quad one second too early when 4 people are shooting at you doesnt work, and having a countdown where 8 people know exactly at which split second to jump on the spawn is not the solution.

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49 minutes ago, DEZ said:

People who can't do basic math should not play TDM. So it's kinda dull-filter <:

And remembering the next carnage time and planing to rush it is a part of teamplay. No need to simplify everything.

It's not about whether you can do basic maths or not. It's about whether doing basic maths is enjoyable.

 

16 minutes ago, dansen said:

the hectic situation that the quad pickup fight is, alot of the time, you only know the quad timing plus minus 2 seconds or something like that. and by looking at the clock, because the spawntime is 90s, you can get confused, and you will. taking that away from tdm is very bad imo.

 

having a timer that tells you when quad comes is just boring. the important thing is that the pickup sound should be global, so that both teams have a chance at it. standing on quad one second too early when 4 people are shooting at you doesnt work, and having a countdown where 8 people know exactly at which split second to jump on the spawn is not the solution.

With global sounds there's no uncertainty whatsoever. You can't even use the "but it's imprecise" argument when you can have a clock with tenths of a second (or milliseconds if that's how you roll) and nobody would mind.

A better solution would be to add, say, +/- 5 seconds of randomness and have the timer show the item as "spawning" 85 seconds after it was taken (at which point it'll randomly spawn within the next ten seconds). That completely prevents the situation with everyone jumping on it at the same instant, and rewards control of the area.

The HUD could be given that 10-second spawning timer which'd continue regardless of whether the item's up or not, unless it gets taken during that window. This would also possibly be useful for the initial 30-second randomness window, meaning that you don't get notified when it comes up.

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21 minutes ago, Qualx said:

With global sounds there's no uncertainty whatsoever. You can't even use the "but it's imprecise" argument when you can have a clock with tenths of a second (or milliseconds if that's how you roll) and nobody would mind.

A better solution would be to add, say, +/- 5 seconds of randomness and have the timer show the item as "spawning" 85 seconds after it was taken (at which point it'll randomly spawn within the next ten seconds). That completely prevents the situation with everyone jumping on it at the same instant, and rewards control of the area.

The HUD could be given that 10-second spawning timer which'd continue regardless of whether the item's up or not, unless it gets taken during that window. This would also possibly be useful for the initial 30-second randomness window, meaning that you don't get notified when it comes up.

theres still the uncertainty, simply because you have to look at the time and "get it" right, its not a computet number, even if you take it yourself, youre only going to have it maybe to the half second.

i have nothing against a quad respawn time of say 80-90s. maybe in tdm experimental. but i really have to oppose the countdown timer on screen. oh and one other thing, ive never done math to time.

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For quad, I've thought having a 3d timer on the item and only visible if the player is pretty damn close to it - This would still keep the respawn consistent, reward timing the item in your head if you want to avoid having to revisit quad area constantly and global information without communication (which I think is the key point here, communication)

For timers in general, I think they should be either on entirely for casual ruleset, or maybe even tried like i suggested with carnage.
 

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I'd be fine with (certain) items flashing for a randomized amount of time between let's say 6 and 4 seconds across all modes. Personally I think clock timing shouldn't be mandatory to learn if you wanna get good. Every other aspect of the game is connected to all the others. When you practice your movement you will get better mouse control, if you get better mouse control you get better aim. If you practice your aim you'll get better mouse control, if you get better mouse control you'll get better movement. If you practice clock timing you'll get better positioning, but if you practice positioning you won't get better clock timing. Clock timing is a completely separate skill from any others in the game, yet it's arguably the most impactful. It's a bottleneck.

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23 hours ago, Skaarj said:

How about instead of adding more junk to hud use global sounds for it? One when quad is spawing up, like in q3 and before that 3 different sounding ticks every 20 sec before spawn.

People keep mentioning this but tbh it's an entirely different issue. We know that better sounds are coming. We all know the sound engine isn't good and they're working on improving it. 

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2 hours ago, CrazyAl said:

People keep mentioning this but tbh it's an entirely different issue. We know that better sounds are coming. We all know the sound engine isn't good and they're working on improving it. 

I meant to say that global sounds can work as timers.

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2 minutes ago, Skaarj said:

I meant to say that global sounds can work as timers.

Of course, but I'm mainly talking about armors/mh here. Power ups should have a clear global sound when picked up and maybe an audible sound when it's close to coming up or a 3D timer like I stated above. Again I think this issue is separate from the one I'm trying to address with this post.

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13 minutes ago, CrazyAl said:

Of course, but I'm mainly talking about armors/mh here. Power ups should have a clear global sound when picked up and maybe an audible sound when it's close to coming up or a 3D timer like I stated above. Again I think this issue is separate from the one I'm trying to address with this post.

Ok then, my bad. Thread was derailed into timing quad so I forgot what is was about in first place.

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how about instead of showing the timer on top of the player u just have a chat message saying "BigCrookedCock picked up RA at 09:27"?

i think it would be the best thing given its a thing players can bind, say for example BigCrookedCock could bind  "RA picked, +25", and press the bind as soon as he picks up ra. but its annoying and a lot of players dont wanna do that or dont have keyboard space since they have 20 million smilies on all boundable keys. 

so just having a chat message show up could help new players learning timing and making it easyier

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