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Woeste Wessel

Blood, gore and darkness

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On ESR I read a comment stating "...but comparing to q-series, to my taste the overall atmosphere is too, well, how to put it, unserious? too "arcadish"? not sure if its precise definition, because both games are fps-arcades, basically, but reflex has more of "it", whatever it is. its like comparing street fighter and mortal combat or need for speed and gran tourismo - they're of the same genres but somehow i like mortal tourismo better."  (link)
 

And I can relate a lot. The very reason I ever got into quake was all the gore and darkness. Only later I learned to appreciate all the other stuff Quake had to offer. I like Hotline Miami a lot, but would have never even bought it if it had pink unicorns and rainbows in there. I bought devil daggers, because reviews said it was hard (but fair) and it looked dark and nice. I never tried team fortress, because it looked too 'Disney'.

In all fairness, I use Pada's competitive pack and I would disable all the blood and stuff anyway, for visibility purposes. However, I think adding some darkness might draw people to this game. I understand the PG rating would probably go up, but honestly I think a 18+ PG rating would actually be a good reason for a lot of young people to even try the game. I know this sounds wrong, but I think it works that way.

I bought this game myself for different reasons than gore and darkness, but for someone who never played this, I suppose they can ‘relate’ better to it, than to difficult trickjumps. My mom thinks every skateboard trick looks the same. Only if she’d skateboard herself, she’d understand the difference.

Screenshots of the original quake for comparison: http://rome.ro/news/2016/6/22/happy-20th-birthday-quake 

I’m curious what other people think about this.

 

//Potato for people otherwise unsatisfied

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I started out with arena fps on a lan. Was a friend of mine that introduced me to the genre. The thing that got me hooked was the gore and gibs when you fraged someone. the speed of the game (Adrenaline). And that CTF with friends is a blast.

 

It was not only till after I've played some more I got in to changing the fov, Bridge to RA @ campgrounds, and configure quake / mods.

 

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I was very much drawn to Reflex's current art style and would hate to see it go all doom and gloom. We've had plenty of years where that art style was the dominant one and while that's not a bad thing per se I'm glad Reflex is going for more accessible and lighthearted visuals. That being said the current template still allows for upside down pentagrams, hell imagery and Satan worship as at the end of the day it's up to the map makers whether or not to incorporate that stuff.

 

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@VN1X Agreed, in the end I suppose it's up to the artist.

Maybe it's not even about blood and gore. I like your definition from your topic 'Visuals or not visuals', maybe it's the "wow-factor". I never played carmageddon because of how well the driving was implemented (car handling was simply horrible), I bought it because of the wow stuff.  I bought Broforce, because it's funny to play as Chuck Norris, John Rambo or the Terminator (and because I liked the trailers and stuff). Maybe Reflex needs a "B.A. Baracus"-characterskin or something too, or some other 'wow'-stuff to look inviting to new players.

In all fairness, there is already some wow-stuff. I looked into this game because I saw Terifire's fragmovie, and I bought it after I saw some movement tutorial. I liked the movement (I come from VQL and have no CPM experience) and I also liked that this guy was just relaxed and the music was relaxed. I got fed up with games were everybody is whining about matchmaking, winning, cheats, tierslumming, nerfing certain weapons and whatnot. I like that this has a relaxed vibe. People are skilled and friendly. So far I haven't encountered a single ragequit (19 hours of playing), one guy had networkissue's but reconnected later, to apologize (=. My point is, I guess, that -based upon those movies- this is what I hoped for, and this is what it really is. However, I don't think it's the wow-factor many other people are looking for. This is my personal wow-factor.

So maybe the question really is: "does reflex have enough 'wow' to it, and if so, or if not, what is the wow-factor? Or which wow-factor should be implemented?"

I think there's plenty of stuff to brag about, like:
-it's competitive
-runs fluid, without fps-cap
-is about skill
-lots of maps and other content
-nice community
-fast paced
-blabalbla

What I think is a really bad idea:
-do as Quakelive and try to turn it into a PG 6+ casual family game to attract players when going to steam.
 

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i think that not only is their current art style a sensible choice (as visibility is super important - though they can still improve on that front imo) there is no other choice really. they cannot compete against the 'wow-factor' you get from gibbing demons in doom or how dark and scary it is etc.

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17 hours ago, VN1X said:

Reflex is going for more accessible and lighthearted visual

If we just take "bright game" vs "dark game" in consideration. I go for a bright game. Just because I want my game to be bright. (A defect on me from quake where I wanted fps = vertexlightning). I think most proplayers also likes the game bright and I think we shall seek for what pros want. But still have something that gets the casual players hooked.

That's what I want to discuss. I want a game where the graphics settings between a casual player ain't that different from a pro player. Many has compared reflex with cpma and it's settings. But there is a huge difference between the high setting vs low+config settings. Why I want this? I want casual players to be enable to be as good as they can be. Like when I started with quake. If no one showed me to change fov then I probably have still played with 90 and wonder why the other players could see me so easy.

 

 

@Woeste Wessel I know what you mean. That fragmovie has some hype in it. But for my part I got more hype from CTF Draft cup promo and the october release movie. There I got the wow factor. But think that is probably because I'm in to the game.

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blood/gore and darkness dont necessarily have to be together. bright red gibs not unlike quake 3's wouldn't feel out of place to me in reflex. i think keeping the option to turn gibs off for visibility but also adding blood/gibs cosmetic items would be a good idea. like in quake 3 i think the gibs look sick so even though i have picmip, vertex, etc all on i have blood and gibs on as well

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Honestly, i played a lot of ql but i had everything turned off.

No textures, r_dynamiclight "0", vertex lighting, no shadows, no gibs, ecc... just because i hated the unprofessional and unclean look it had. on reflex tho, its the opposite and i like it as is. Wat brought me into the game wasnt at all the look of it, but it was the complexity of the game itselfe.

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On 7/17/2016 at 0:48 PM, Woeste Wessel said:

So maybe the question really is: "does reflex have enough 'wow' to it, and if so, or if not, what is the wow-factor? Or which wow-factor should be implemented?"

Regarding visuals as a "wow-factor", League of Legends is the most popular esport AND casual game in the world, and it looks like a bad fairy tale acid trip. I don't think any particular style of graphics or art attracts more people. The execution of whatever style is chosen is more important, and how well it meshes with the game play, map design, and overall experience. While Reflex's style is slightly disjointed due to the massive variety of maps, the execution of visuals is crisp, modern and attractive - which is especially good for a competitive game. This in particular is what immediately drew me into the game.

To answer your question, I think Reflex's gameplay is the wow factor. Literally nothing else even comes close. The bigger challenge is retaining players who are interested. That is done with quality features, not gimmicks or graphics.

 

 

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I dont really know which game you play but reflex is already quite bloody or oily in that case. There are cases in which you stand in the oily rain of you enemys gibs. Gibs can get bugged in a wall and you get oil rain for a few minutes.

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I don't really care if the blood is actually red (hurr durr video game violence / video game age rating) but it better be there. Ragdolls, gibs(directional!) and splatter fluid dynamics are important and very satisfying. Some kind of setting for blood neon color like the various watercooling liquid colors people use would be interesting.

High effects setting is already kinda casual and movie friendly.

Map style wise I personally would prefer less shiny reflective surfaces and less color saturation. Which in turn would be a bit more gloomy and dark but not quake1 "scary" or "bloody". Reflex sits at this fine line where it's kinda serious but arcadish but also not neon purple foam club silly. I like that.

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On 7/18/2016 at 10:07 PM, BattleSnacks said:

If the game doesn't end up as dark and doomy gloomy as you like by next year you will have a brand new quake to play around with(provided its any good)

Hah, though I don't think I'll even want to try it if they implement loadouts again

 

On 7/19/2016 at 5:13 PM, lisk said:

I don't really care if the blood is actually red (hurr durr video game violence / video game age rating) but it better be there. Ragdolls, gibs(directional!) and splatter fluid dynamics are important and very satisfying. Some kind of setting for blood neon color like the various watercooling liquid colors people use would be interesting.

. Yes! In my opinion they are very satisfying indeed! Maybe it's not even the blood, but as you say, just the physics. For example, I have this gameboy tennis game on my raspberry. When you smash the ball right, it seems to go extra fast, has a specific sound, and the ball looks a bit elliptical. It's these tiny things that make smashing the ball so satisfying. (I think I have a game called spike v-ball whatever on my NES, that does something similar).

I'd really like a different kill beep. Maybe it's just that I'm not really experienced, but I'm quite often confused about whether I killed someone, or I didn't.

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