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UPDATE (13 December):

See post below. The RA room and mega/BR atrium have been adjusted.

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Original Post:

Hey people, I've created a 1v1 map. Please take a look if you get a chance. Better yet, play a couple duels on it and give me some feedback/suggestions. ;) Anything is appreciated. Big thanks to @xero who helped me scale the map correctly and made some pretty useful suggestions. I've therefore labeled the map "lolo_duel1x" in your honor. 

I'm not sure whether this can be called a single atrium map or not. It's a weird one. 2x GAs, 1x YA, 1x RA, and 1x MH. There's also 1x 50hp, 5x (?) 25hp, and 5x armor shards and small health. All weapons except for stakegun and plasma rifle are present on the map.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=804692919

 

 

 

Edited by lolograde

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saw u on it yesterday, hopped on for a second. only ran around for a few seconds, but generally found the upper level and how to get there a bit clunky. also, the red armour teleporter feels like a bit of a gimmick - dont like the way the entrance is in the ground, dont like that it spits you out in the same room 25m up and dont really like that the only option is to double jump across.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, thelawenforcer said:

saw u on it yesterday, hopped on for a second. only ran around for a few seconds, but generally found the upper level and how to get there a bit clunky. also, the red armour teleporter feels like a bit of a gimmick - dont like the way the entrance is in the ground, dont like that it spits you out in the same room 25m up and dont really like that the only option is to double jump across.

Thanks for feedback. Tele is still in RA room but everything has been scaled down a bit and, afaik, the RA telejump across is no longer possible. You may have jumped around on an earlier version -- check out workshop version to be sure we're talking about same layout. If so, I'll work on the upper level stuff. I'm hesitant to change RA room too much. It may be a "gimmick" but my intent was to do something unique and different than the norm with this map. 

I think @xero sent me some feedback and ideas for more of an upper route around the map so I'll take a look on Sunday when I'm back from holidays. I think maybe the area around the upper GA, BR perch, and the jumppad area could do with some more interesting architecture -- right now it's all kind of bland.

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This is just some THEORETICAL feedback based on running around the map.

 

I think this area is something you need to look at:

lolo.png

 

This route looks really strong in theory. You go GA -> YA -> RA in no time. What makes this even more problematic is the fact that MH is also extremely open while you are at this route. You can even watch MH from the tele-exit that leads you to RA.

 

Also... i'm starting to wonder why you'd ever wanna leave that area when in-control:

- height-advantage

- only 1 way to get there with less risk (the GA-Teleporter)

- you have HP there, a RL, YA, good vision on MH and literally every RA-entrance, IC, another RL and bolt

- you can get back into that position with 1 RJ after you get RA

 

In general the maps is extremely open with large areas and i fear hitscan might get a bit strong in here. A lot of bolt positions/areas. 

 

But again, this is just from looking around and not from playtesting.

 

Regards

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1 hour ago, A. Benz said:

This is just some THEORETICAL feedback based on running around the map.

 

I think this area is something you need to look at:

lolo.png

 

This route looks really strong in theory. You go GA -> YA -> RA in no time. What makes this even more problematic is the fact that MH is also extremely open while you are at this route. You can even watch MH from the tele-exit that leads you to RA.

 

Also... i'm starting to wonder why you'd ever wanna leave that area when in-control:

- height-advantage

- only 1 way to get there with less risk (the GA-Teleporter)

- you have HP there, a RL, YA, good vision on MH and literally every RA-entrance, IC, another RL and bolt

- you can get back into that position with 1 RJ after you get RA

 

In general the maps is extremely open with large areas and i fear hitscan might get a bit strong in here. A lot of bolt positions/areas. 

 

But again, this is just from looking around and not from playtesting.

 

Regards

All good points. Will keep it in mind. Might be the GAs and YA placement need rethinking.

I was partially thinking about the item placement on Aerowalk and how exposed/central megahealth is there instead of in a trappy corner and how that makes Aero tend to play faster since both players are trying to swoop megahealth. Other than RA, my item placement was iterative. I'm not set on it.

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I actually played it vs. Pill earlier and it played as expected. Very hitscan heavy, the area i mentioned before is indeed as strong as expected, RL area played really awkward at times (might be a thing of "getting used to") and the map feels large in general, too large.

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2 hours ago, thelawenforcer said:

the latest version is indeed better. red tele is better cos u can actually make that right turn onto the platform. i find it very difficult to make the doublejump across though. is that meant to be like that? 

I've mixed feelings about DJ telejump out of RA room. Originally I designed it to work like that but now I think it would've made RA too easy to get in and out if taking the tele gives you two high escape routes.

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I think the mid section is too "open".  Why not wall off some of that stuff?

Disclosure: I have not played a single duel on it.  I'm not as good as anybody commenting on this thread.  But it seems almost blatant that it would be too open and prone to too much rail.

I do have experience with over designing maps in many other games though.  Sometimes it's hard for the designer to see the forest through the trees.  I've been very guilty of that, when making my maps.

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48 minutes ago, EternalRage said:

I think the mid section is too "open".  Why not wall off some of that stuff?

Disclosure: I have not played a single duel on it.  I'm not as good as anybody commenting on this thread.  But it seems almost blatant that it would be too open and prone to too much rail.

I do have experience with over designing maps in many other games though.  Sometimes it's hard for the designer to see the forest through the trees.  I've been very guilty of that, when making my maps.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to work on the map hopefully this week some and have some ideas to make it be less open.

I also saw your post in the other thread about eliminating some weapons (namely the bolt rifle) and thought maybe I should replace the bolt with the stake gun?

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2 hours ago, lolograde said:

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to work on the map hopefully this week some and have some ideas to make it be less open.

I also saw your post in the other thread about eliminating some weapons (namely the bolt rifle) and thought maybe I should replace the bolt with the stake gun?

I think that would be a great idea.  Since I'm not good enough to know, I would sincerely be curious if that change happened, how you and others feel it plays.

The area behind the RL and the GA above it seems a bit too large.  And in general the scale of some of the hallways could be tightened up a bit.  I can see where a lot of the thought came in on this map.  You can see it on every angle.  I think more people should play it.

In general, if I could take a percent modifier to the scale of the whole map, I'd probably subtract 10% or something. :) 

 

 

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Made some rather large changes tonight. Tried to make some areas a little less huge and open. 

  1. no more jumppad up to boltrifle (it's now a tele)
  2. moved tele to RA room forward, removed upper RL perch and hallway
  3. moved lower GA tele to make hallway shorter
  4. removed large, bland area where upper GA was, now replaced with some dj stuff and a walkway around the BR area
  5. adjusted size of YA area and made another trickjump possible from lower GA
  6. lots of various other item placement changes

Please check it out and give me some feedback. 

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Another update:

  1. Removed the "gimmicky" teleportal floor under RA. It's now just shallow (blue colored) lava. There were a lot of comments about this and, while some people enjoyed it, seems like the consensus was that it was stupid. I put a new teleportal against the wall in the RA in order to "escape" the RA room, you have to either RJ out or head down steps (taking either the tele or the lower exit to IC). Also, telejumping across doesn't work without also RJing.
  2. Removed the wall between YA and that area above the lower RL. This creates a new route from YA to the GL (above RA). It will make YA a little stronger, positioning wise, against the tele escape from RA (so it would encourage player in RA to escape low or RJ out to the platform above RA). 
  3. Moved MH closer to RA and expanded the ledge above MH (creating a safe area to walk underneath). There is now no line-of-sight from YA to MH. You can double/triple jump out of the MH area with this new ledge. I suspect that this change plus #2 above will create more incentives to exit RA room low. Previously, the lower exit (to IC and MH) was just too punishing if you were caught there. 
  4. Made upper RL area a little wider, moved RL location a slight bit. Hopefully makes that area "flow" a bit better.
  5. Added a triple jump to the PG ramp. The triplejump will send you really high but this could be useful in some instances as you can TJ all the way to upper RL.
  6. Some health bubble repositioning. 
Edited by lolograde

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Maybe something to consider if you haven't already: lower the roofs on the 2nd story so some rocket splash from lower levels could do some damage.  Maybe not everywhere, but YA seems reasonable.

Just a suggestion.  Probably doesn't matter too much either way.

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32 minutes ago, EternalRage said:

Maybe something to consider if you haven't already: lower the roofs on the 2nd story so some rocket splash from lower levels could do some damage.  Maybe not everywhere, but YA seems reasonable.

Just a suggestion.  Probably doesn't matter too much either way.

Agreed. That's something I've been paying attention to and considering when making changes (e.g., the GL area, for instance). I'll take a look at the YA area again. I know the upper GA area probably can be lowered. 

EDIT: Also, I cannot figure out how to create a stakegun pickup. I've left the BR as is for now but I think I've created enough visual obstacles to make it less BR heavy.

Edited by lolograde

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This is the honest to gods truth... I don't like giving specific advice on maps because I want the maker to be free from too much influence, but I was totally thinking...

DO NOT MAKE THE JUMP FROM BR TO OUTSIDE RAISED HALLWAY POSSIBLE  -- and it that is exactly what happened.  Weird.

I was going to instead perhaps suggest to lower the ramp, but what was done will suffice.  Seems a very good decision IMO!  Seems much improved to me, but of course, this is just theory crafting.

What do you think of the map now, compared to the early iteration?  Have games improved or gotten worse?

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55 minutes ago, EternalRage said:

DO NOT MAKE THE JUMP FROM BR TO OUTSIDE RAISED HALLWAY POSSIBLE  -- and it that is exactly what happened.  Weird.

:D Nice. 

Yea, it has been a lot of iterations and I feel the map is getting a lot closer to having it's own "identity". Personally, I think I'd describe it like a mix between Phrantic and Aerowalk. It's fast, movement heavy, and plays really fun (imo). However, I want to see where other players take the map in terms of meta. I learned a lot by watching a lot of people play on the map -- seeing how different strategies have played out on the map.

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Made another round of updates/tweaks today. I think that's it for now. I am going to sponsor a tournament ($50 prize pool) for this map sometime soon-ish. Hopefully I will be able to get some competitive feedback on this map. 

Thanks all for the feedback and so forth. Below is a screenshot but please see the above for more.

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Edited by lolograde

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UPDATE 

  • Reworked RA room: Stairs are shorter, the ledge over RA has been extended, included another escape route to upper GA. Now telejump across RA is also possible. Expanded area at GL (ledge above RA tele) so that it's easy to land on the ledge whether or not you attempt a telejump or not. 
  • Adjustments to megahealth/BR atrium: Floor has been raised roughly 24units making the atrium a bit tighter vertically. The water has been completely removed (:(). The small space next to RA room is now level with the rest of the room (no stairs).

Overall, the changes make the map play faster: the RA room is faster to get in and out, the mega/BR atrium is less vertical making BR less dominant in vertical fights, and removal of water allows for some sneaky plays across the lower map.

Edited by lolograde

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YET ANOTHER UPDATE (Are we getting close?)

The RA room has been entirely redone. There's no longer any stairs or lava. Instead, the room is now similar to Use and Abuse's RA room: the RA spawns  in front of the tele which is visible from GL but not visible from the upper GA ledge. Also, the tele into RA room has been moved in a sort of Use and Abuse sort of way, exposed. I've also removed the 25hp at GL and added a 50hp above RA.

Edited by lolograde

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